Shutdown

[nando]

The irony is, by attacking themselves, they'll just get more democrats elected.

Not necessarily a good thing, we need a heathly balance of power.

[rwh11385]

of course they did! why wouldn't they have?

it still doesn't answer the question. So the house didn't like the Senate bill, right? Then why didn't they vote on it?

this is the answer:



the answer is they won't vote, because they know it will pass, even in the house with a conservative majority.

Cue the national pressure to get a vote already:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/10/02/the-fixs-clean-cr-whip-count/

The Fix’s ‘clean’ CR whip count

Looks like 221 leaning towards passing a clean CR, which would be "enough votes".

http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/gop-moderates-plot-revolt-end-to-government-shutdown/

Republican Centrists Plot Revolt to End Government Shutdown

He said there were many lawmakers who support a clean CR. He cautioned, however, that many of them may never be in a position to vote for it “because of their districts, they’re afraid, they’re concerned about a primary.”

“One thing I admire about the Ted Cruz Republicans, they don’t care what anyone thinks about them, they just go ahead and do it. I think that’s what we have to start doing,” King said. “So to that extent I’m a Cruz Republican.”

But until centrists start acting with more abandon, Boehner is likely to stick with the current plan — even if they have the numbers right now to force a vote on a clean CR.

It’s no secret that King and Rep. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania have been leading a contingent of moderates, and as of Wednesday afternoon, there were at least 18 Republicans who had publicly stated they would vote for a clean CR. The list includes King, Dent, Grimm, Simpson, Devin Nunes of California, C.W. Bill Young of Florida, Erik Paulsen of Minnesota, Frank A. LoBiondo of New Jersey, Leonard Lance of New Jersey, Jon Runyan of New Jersey, Lou Barletta of Pennsylvania, Jim Gerlach of Pennsylvania, Michael G. Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania, Patrick Meehan of Pennsylvania, Frank R. Wolf of Virginia, J. Randy Forbes of Virginia, Rob Wittman of Virginia and Scott Rigell of Virginia.

If they all stick together, the bloc could make Boehner’s life difficult. But Boehner is worried about another group.

Many speculate that Boehner would face a conservative mutiny if he simply brought up a clean CR to be passed by Democrats and a small number of moderate Republicans.

I actually got an email from Patrick Meehan surveying what he should do, so he was aware of life outside the RWNJ bubble and could understand 72% of the country didn't want a shutdown to happen over ACA.

But then again, there are threats to their political future if they don't continue to shit on the country because of an extreme and vocal minority.

Like this I got emailed:

If Obamacare isn't defunded before the end of this month, we'll be stuck with it forever.

And if that happens, it will be entirely the fault of the spineless, weak-kneed, hand-wringing "RINO" cowards who refuse to stick to their principles when the rubber meets the road!

I am absolutely SICK and TIRED of their cowardice. It's time to do something about it!

My name is Brent Bozell, and I am the Chairman of For America, the largest and most powerful grassroots army on the right.

And frankly, I'm absolutely furious!

After two years of big talk about repealing Obamacare, our golden opportunity has finally arrived.

Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and Rand Paul are spearheading the last-ditch effort to kill Obamacare before it takes effect. Two-thirds of the American people support ending this nightmare.

But the hand-wringing Republican "leadership" is trying to stop them!

Turncoats like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Richard Burr are actually threatening these conservative heroes for having the audacity to stand up to Barack Obama!

We need to tell these cowards that they're either with the American people, or they're with Barack Obama.

We need to tell them that if they fund Obamacare, they'll own it lock, stock, and barrel.

We need to tell them that if they throw their lot in with Barack Obama by funding this disaster, we will drive them out of office next year, no questions asked!

Believe me. We will steamroll any politician who stands in our way, no matter what letter stands next to his or her name.

And the very first step is flooding their offices with petitions in the few days that we have left to win this fight.

We're going to make it crystal clear to these RINO squishes that if they don't get in line and fight to defund Obamacare in the few days we have left, we will send them packing in 2014!

That's not a healthy way to run government... either get on-board with shutting it down if you don't get your way or be attacked next year by the extremist PACs.

But this is a clear presentation of the logical fallacy of false dilemma - that there can be only two sides to an issue. And demonstrates why bipartisan compromise is a thing of the past with the Teabaggers in force.

[einhander]

^ I feel you.

No winners in this mess, for sure.

[Jrey]

How is that any different than what some fringe Republicans are doing?

I'd rather have the USDA open than the Grand Canyon.

ill have to agree with the whole rather have USDA open than Grand Canyon yes BUT hes intentionally hurting the american people and also that just basically lays off the workers from those parks(i might be wrong im still doing research) and its pointless shutting the grand canyon down, its like lets shut down the Memorials in DC, no one but vets can get in, NOW nobody is allowed on those grounds, look what that shows.

But whats getting me is(in response to my first link) he shuts down military grocery stores but leaves a golf course open, again that just shows how much he cares about the people

This shutdown is getting over dramatic

[einhander]

O rly?

So he shuts down all this but a golf course? yeah sounds good Mr President after all you are the "president" this is gotta be the most ridiculous thing that this government has done :hitler:

http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/obamas-golf-courses/

I find this dumb :loco:

http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/obama-grand-canyon/

How is that any different than what some fringe Republicans are doing?

I'd rather have the USDA open than the Grand Canyon.

[Jrey]

O rly?

So he shuts down all this but a golf course? yeah sounds good Mr President after all you are the "president" this is gotta be the most ridiculous thing that this government has done :hitler:

Obama’s military golf courses are open, even while the military bases shut down the grocery stores. What is Obama’s response to the shutdown? He goes golfing, of course.

http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/obamas-golf-courses/

I find this dumb :loco:

http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/obama-grand-canyon/

Obama has ordered the Grand Canyon to stay closed, even after the state of Arizona and local businesses have offered to cover the costs necessary to keep it open. In other words, the shutdown isn’t about the money — it’s about hurting the American people just because he can.

[rwh11385]

Follow the money

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/06...agewanted=all&

From a nice follow-up:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/op...lers.html?_r=0

As Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein put it last year in their book, “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks,” the G.O.P. has become “an insurgent outlier — ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”

It has been obvious for years that the modern Republican Party is no longer capable of thinking seriously about policy. Whether the issue is climate change or inflation, party members believe what they want to believe, and any contrary evidence is dismissed as a hoax, the product of vast liberal conspiracies.

For a while the party was able to compartmentalize, to remain savvy and realistic about politics even as it rejected objectivity everywhere else. But this wasn’t sustainable. Sooner or later, the party’s attitude toward policy — we listen only to people who tell us what we want to hear, and attack the bearers of uncomfortable news — was bound to infect political strategy, too.

Remember what happened in the 2012 election — not the fact that Mitt Romney lost, but the fact that all the political experts around him apparently had no inkling that he was likely to lose. Polls overwhelmingly pointed to an Obama victory, but Republican analysts denounced the polls as “skewed” and attacked the media outlets reporting those polls for their alleged liberal bias.

Unfortunately for all of us, even the shock of electoral defeat wasn’t enough to burst the G.O.P. bubble; it’s still a party dominated by wishful thinking, and all but impervious to inconvenient facts. And now that party’s leaders have bungled themselves into a corner.

Everybody not inside the bubble realizes that Mr. Obama can’t and won’t negotiate under the threat that the House will blow up the economy if he doesn’t — any concession at all would legitimize extortion as a routine part of politics. Yet Republican leaders are just beginning to get a clue, and so far clearly have no idea how to back down. Meanwhile, the government is shut, and a debt crisis looms. Incompetence can be a terrible thing.

Totally hit the nail on the head with all of it.

[BraveUlysses]

Fuck these toolbags and all those who defend them forever and ever.

[nando]

Follow the money

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/06...agewanted=all&

[Dozyproductions]

Are you kidding? Does whoever you work for supply coverage? Or are you buying yours elsewhere?



Ill give him a call tomorrow and ask. I know it was part of an employer plan and im pretty sure they havent dropped it but im not 100% positive.

I don't have work to cover for me.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/15/smallbusiness/health-insurance/index.html

[BraveUlysses]

What's your point?

The defense industry is among the biggest, most inefficient, least accountable sectors of the American economy....funded mostly by tax dollars.

A+++ would agree again

[nando]

What's your point?

The defense industry is among the biggest, most inefficient, least accountable sectors of the American economy....funded mostly by tax dollars.

I think his point is it will affect the economy.

the GOP is all about jobs, until they aren't.

[MF DOOM]

A single healthy person can barely get that price with any low deductible. Heck mine alone would of been %600 of that. I need to figure my figures now though from the ACA.

Are you kidding? Does whoever you work for supply coverage? Or are you buying yours elsewhere?

Doom: Was that H/C premium rate of your parents their portion of a employer provided H/C plan with the employer paying the rest??? If so is your fathers employer dropping the benefit and dumping your family into the 0 Care exchanges????

Ill give him a call tomorrow and ask. I know it was part of an employer plan and im pretty sure they havent dropped it but im not 100% positive.

[einhander]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...-shutdown.html

What's your point?

The defense industry is among the biggest, most inefficient, least accountable sectors of the American economy....funded mostly by tax dollars.

[rwh11385]

To say the least, the shutdown has really pissed me off and a clear sign of the stupidity that is going on at the Capital and also the GOP. It's clear the House doesn't give a crap of what their voters want and only care about their personal extreme goals and the desires of the Super PACs. We as the populace are the backseat to political machine that is supposed to represent us and the problem is a good amount of people think that their views being indoctrinated by their biased and simplistic "news" outlet is their own instead of brainwashed by the influencers who use them to get what they want by making the viewers think it is what they should support.

If we actually care about freedom and personal choice, then we actually need to be educated and think logically, instead of ingesting utter bullshit from think thanks funded by those who pay for the messages and "facts" they want published. Sure, bread and circuses isn't good but neither are puppetmasters getting the populace to defend them.

the ruling class wish to "mandate" us citizens do.ing the benefit and dumping your family into the 0 Care exchanges????

My biggest question is how the classic archetype of the ruling elites dictating what society should progress to any different than the Koch brothers attempting to rule the country with Americans for Prosperity? Instead of thinking for themselves, or demanding an alternative to ACA or coming up with other solutions to the problems we are facing with rising healthcare costs, an aging population, a new workforce that struggles to pay for its retirees and their pensions, the RWNJs eat right out of the hands of those who benefit from them being lemmings.

The country ought to focus on facts, have grown up discussions of solutions and strategies, and use logic and reason, rather than childish power struggles and a greater divide that prevents us from accomplishing anything - but especially a budget or having the federal government be operational.

To argue about Obamacare now is distracting from the point that 72% of Americans disapprove of the shutdown as a result of disagreements about ACA. Even the plurality of Republicans are against this (49% vs. 48%) It's the Tea Partiers that support it - 57% of them. And rightly so, more people blame the House and Republicans for the shutdown. They tried and failed 40 times to overturn it. They said the 2012 election was necessary to overturn it and the American people responded by electing Obama and having the GOP loses seats in both chambers of Congress. Yet, the House Republicans don't seem to give a rat's ass about that. Regardless of how effective or ineffective ACA is, the House acted against the interests of the country and put their own in front of it. But of course, their interests are really of the lobbyists and the Super PACs, not the voters. They only coincide when the voters eat up the bull that the Super PACs spew.

The Tea Partiers even go so far as attacking their own party who aren't for the shutdown and call them out. And they threaten to take them down in the next election... only thing is they do defeat the more moderate people in the primaries but get slaughtered usually in the general election. And Republican numbers are on the decline, being replaced by more and more independents. The Tea Party movement may have gathered together the extremists but pushed out the rest, weakening the Republican party as a whole and made it pander to the outrageous of the hard right. Attacking your own is not how to regain power, but they seem too stupid to care.

Let's hope for a solution and the downfall for the Tea Party, for the good of the country and the GOP. Else, there will just have to eventually be a middle party that rises from the ashes and Tea Party will be an extreme and vocal minority that doesn't play nice with others. But maybe enough GOP will bail from the Tea Party sinking ship and we'll avoid more hardship.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...are-fight.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-the-shutdown/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...ical-abcs.html



One way or the other, the nation should move on from rocky course it's been on, with the complete inability for politicians to be mature enough to effectively do their jobs. The parties will have to adapt or be replaced, as the fresh blood of voting age diverts greatly from the generation nearing their life expectancy.



The generational profiles don't show a real change in the numbers of liberals, a few points away from a third... but a replacement of Republicans with independents. And Republicans attacking independents as liberals won't help their case either. Nor will attacking their own party. But maybe a majority in the middle will pave the path for an intelligent mix of social liberty and fiscal responsibility. Or at least I can hope.