Missing Flight MH370 777-200

[einhander]

The plane was most likely hijacked and crashed. I'm sure airlines and aviation administrations around the world are tightening procedures.

I don't think Israel is special in that regard. Plus, their civil aviation has always had a laser beam focus on security. Not really news.

[einhander]

Saajid Muhammad Badat (co-conspirator of Richard Reid) , from his testimony last week, not the older Bojinka Plot.

Ah right.

I'm not disputing any hijacking scenario. I just don't think the plane made it all the way to Cavestan or any other place, landed, and is now being prepped for something else by evil masterminds. Too complex. Too many variables.

But, in that vein, maybe there were a group of body snatchers who took over control. Now the passengers are being put through rigorous medical experiments and their organs are being harvested to make high octane racing fuel for lawn mower grands prix.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Well, you keep going on acting as if the world is a loving, caring place, and there is a simple, logical, sane explanation, and I'll continue thinking the world is full of bad people that want to do bad things to good people because it furthers their agenda.

I think Israel's response is actually telling, being as the present administration has not cared for our ally in the middle east as well as previous administrations, they KNOW they have to go on their own, and protect themselves, because the US probably isn't, not until sometime in early 2017 at least.

Ah right.

I'm not disputing any hijacking scenario. I just don't think the plane made it all the way to Cavestan or any other place, landed, and is now being prepped for something else by evil masterminds. Too complex. Too many variables.

But, in that vein, maybe there were a group of body snatchers who took over control. Now the passengers are being put through rigorous medical experiments and their organs are being harvested to make high octane racing fuel for lawn mower grands prix.

Hey, I know human trafficking for organ transplants is big, there were what, at least 500 kidneys and lungs on that flight?

[einhander]

Well, you keep going on acting as if the world is a loving, caring place, and there is a simple, logical, sane explanation, and I'll continue thinking the world is full of bad people that want to do bad things to good people because it furthers their agenda.

I think Israel's response is actually telling, being as the present administration has not cared for our ally in the middle east as well as previous administrations, they KNOW they have to go on their own, and protect themselves, because the US probably isn't, not until sometime in early 2017 at least.

Farbski, you're conflating way too many things with way too many other things. I really have no idea what our relationship with Israel has to do with anything, let alone a missing airliner.

The world is a dark and dangerous place. Terrorists and criminals, the good ones anyway, don't steal planes and hide them away. It's too complicated. AQ's modus operandi has been low concept high impact since they got started in the nihilism business. Most others have followed suit.

The craziest plausible thing I can think of is that it was a heist. Some sort of high value cargo was on board and someone wanted it.

But, I promise, a simple explanation will come forth one day.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I promise, a simple explanation will come forth.

I truly hope so, for all the families and people affected by this, but I kinda hope not, so I can prove you wrong. I'd love to watch you back out of the room and concede defeat.

;)


In regards to my Israel statement, our relationship is a barometer to judge the actions of both sides, if Israel is doing something to protect from a perceived threat, they would have to have a reason to perceive a threat, if they thought the plane was in the drink, would they be worried?

[einhander]

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

[mulletman]

Disclaimer: I work as an airline pilot. The information in this post is based on my experience and knowledge. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

Unless they were ahead of the game and hardwired a different transponder and spoofed their way through airspace with a second plane that was not wheels up so they could fly through airspace as something else. Then, fly transponder back on another plane, then hook it back to original plane. Now you have a plane hidden in plain site. Or is it in plane site? ;)

No way. Mode S stuff is kind of hard to screw with, especially if you're talking about swapping hardware. But in any case, what would be the point? If you pop up on someone's scope as a new airplane, or bust ANY international borders that you aren't filed for and cleared to cross, you'll have a military escort in a matter of minutes. If you managed to convince them that you're a different flight, now the airplane who's identity you stole is the one in hot water, and there's someone to chase. Easy.

Not if farbins transponder theory is remotely plausible and with that many hostages on the damm thing, the international back lash of shooting and airliner full of passengers down even if its aimed at a population center is going to be very bad. You dont shoot a passenger plane down, thats just a big NO NO.

It's a no-no for sure, but it's happened before. We shot down an Iran Air DC-10 after claiming we thought it was an F-14, and the Soviets shot down a Korean 747. Depending on who you believe, there was also a certain TWA 747 incident... This is infinitely more plausible to me than any sort of BS airplane-heist conspiracy.

that was kinda my point with this

I think way more is known about all this than is being let on. A fucking 777 just does not disappear, there is radar data tracking it that someone has somewhere, with out a transponder its a little harder sure but a 777 has the cross section of a god dammed building someone knows where the thing is or where it fell out of the sky

Believe it or not, over open water.... there's not much tracking going on. ETOPS airplanes communicate with ATC via.... HF radios. They make position reports due to lack of radar coverage. Far enough out to sea, and line-of-sight radar isn't going to do the job no matter how big of a signature you're laying down.

So let me stoke this conspiracy fire


After taking command of the plane, the terrorists switches off emergency oxygen for the cabin. makes a gradual climb to 45,000 while he uses his own emergency oxygen. Passengers go hypoxic and fall asleep,,, eventually they die. The terrorist has the plane. No opposition from the passengers.

This would be pointless. All airplanes have a pressurization control panel that comes equipped with a DUMP switch. Like it sounds, this is to dump cabin pressure to whatever the outside pressure is. The main purpose is for smoke evacuation if you're having an electrical fire or similar. No need to climb, just wear the mask and dump the cabin. Time of useful consciousness at those altitudes is less than 10 seconds. If you stay pressurized, climbing to 45k isn't going to do anything any passenger will notice.

Also, there's no method I'm aware of to inhibit the function of passenger emergency Ox. The masks will drop when you dump the cabin, but the supply for the passengers only has to last around 10 minutes... they're screwed anyway.

The transponders don't hold the coding.It is either hardwired into the aircraft or coded through dip switches. I don't recall exactly how the 777 is setup but probably to change the code you would have to access a panel in the forward cargo bay. There is no direct access to the transponders in flight on the 777.

Agreed... but changing the code would be enough to fool most radar scopes anyway.





My official theory is this.... The thing is a pile of wreckage somewhere in an ocean. Either they had a mechanical issue, perhaps a pressurization issue... combine that with a small FMS programming error, and you have a turn to nowhere with a course that continues for a few hours. The climb could be caused by a variety of things, it depends on what speed/pitch/altitude/power mode or modes were selected at the time. The thing runs out of fuel, and splat.

A hijacking is possible, but to what end? Most scenarios I've heard so far are pretty absurd.


Just like every other aviation accident, we'll know what happened a few years after they find the wreckage, in the form of an NTSB report. I hate to say it, but it's just an airplane accident. Sometimes they're easy to find, sometimes not.

[Farbin Kaiber]

^Maybe you didn't see my later posts, but I then postulated, that instead of swapping transponders, they filed a different flight plan with another transponder that was carried on-board and turned on after the built-in was shut off in the cabin by pushing the knob down and turning to off.

[einhander]

^Maybe you didn't see my later posts, but I then postulated, that instead of swapping transponders, they filed a different flight plan with another transponder that was carried on-board and turned on after the built-in was shut off in the cabin by pushing the knob down and turning to off.

It's not a movie, Farbin!

[mulletman]

^Maybe you didn't see my later posts, but I then postulated, that instead of swapping transponders, they filed a different flight plan with another transponder that was carried on-board and turned on after the built-in was shut off in the cabin by pushing the knob down and turning to off.

That second flight plan would need to have received some sort of clearance in order to have a transponder code. A flight plan doesn't trigger a code, a clearance does. A clearance is built based on your filed flight plan, and then is copied via radio or sent through ACARS from ATC before you push from the gate. If you just popped up VFR mid-oceanic and asked for a clearance, ATC would lose their minds.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Unless you were between handoffs. I mean ATC A does not call ATC B to say, "Hey, we have a handoff coming", they just watch for it. So, if they handed off, switched transponders, then came onto another ATC, it wouldn't be strange. I mean, they are not watching to see flightplan come in, they just know they have one for something coming at a specific time, right?

How much inter-ATC chatter is there between potentially non-neighboring countries?

[mulletman]

Unless you were between handoffs. I mean ATC A does not call ATC B to say, "Hey, we have a handoff coming", they just watch for it. So, if they handed off, switched transponders, then came onto another ATC, it wouldn't be strange. I mean, they are not watching to see flightplan come in, they just know they have one for something coming at a specific time, right?

How much inter-ATC chatter is there between potentially non-neighboring countries?

They do communicate. An example is if I'm trying to make an approach request, but haven't yet been handed off to Approach control from the center controller, it's pretty common to them say something like "I have your request, let me see if approach will take the hand-off now." Flight plans are transferred from one controller to the next before the hand-off occurs.

Between non-neighboring countries, there's even more communication. You usually have a specified time and place in which to make your border crossing.

My point is that you'd have two active flight plans airborne at the same time, and to achieve that, you'd have to have two active clearances. This is pretty impossible to do with only one airplane. There'd have to be another flight that actually departed, with the identity you wanted to take. But when they popped up in international airspace without a clearance, all kinds of bells and whistles would go off.

[Hooffenstein HD]

Terrorism? Lol. It's in a chop shop somwhere in SE Asia.

[gkurey]

If you just popped up VFR mid-oceanic and asked for a clearance, ATC would lose their minds.

This is what it's like coming back from the carrier sometimes, lol.

And to add to what mulletman says about transponders, the best way to 'dupe' any atc system is just to turn it off; which they did. No transponder tom-foolery will go anywhere because of everything mullet said...I would definitely stop focusing on that aspect.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

They are saying that the plane was filled with 3000 miles of fuel. If the plane would of flown up through Bangladesh and over the Himalayas to Afghanistan that's exactly 3000 miles. They think it's laying at the bottom of the ocean outside India though.