Wow. Why is this thread still alive?!

[Exodus_2pt0]

Or this.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/1/the_bounty_police_force_albuquerque_officers

Are you even the slightest bit mad yet?

[LSM3]

So when police search students at a school after a bomb threat they will shoot homeless campers? Jesus christ man I wish I could reason the way you do. It would make my life SO much easier.

[Exodus_2pt0]

I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls.

Edit: fuck it. I have re-read your post multiple times and still don't really understand it.

My post was more pointed at the "Starbucks example" more than the original topic.

Choosing to insult me and dismiss rather than put any real thought into this conversation just shows your arrogance. I'm not being unreasonable here. If more people did not accept the slow erosion of our personal freedoms, then maybe those in power would be more careful to act.

[mrsleeve]

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. - Thomas Jefferson

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance - Thomas Jefferson

When wrongs are pressed because it is believed they will be borne, resistance becomes morality. - Thomas Jefferson

[LSM3]

I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls.

Edit: fuck it. I have re-read your post multiple times and still don't really understand it.

My post was more pointed at the "Starbucks example" more than the original topic.

Choosing to insult me and dismiss rather than put any real thought into this conversation just shows your arrogance. I'm not being unreasonable here. If more people did not accept the slow erosion of our personal freedoms, then maybe those in power would be more careful to act.

Oh I thought we were talking about your relative being searched at school and its relativness to the fourth amendment. That didnt work out to well your you (based on case law) so now its an all out police are bad thread. That video you posted is totally a fourth amendment violation. Got it. A=B B=C A=C

[Exodus_2pt0]

Oh I thought we were talking about your relative being searched at school and its relativness to the fourth amendment. That didnt work out to well your you (based on case law) so now its an all out police are bad thread. That video you posted is totally a fourth amendment violation. Got it. A=B B=C A=C

You should really read through the entire thread....

I think I've reached a point where we will all just have to agree to disagree. As demonstrated in this thread, I can see where there are always going to be issues in handling such a sensitive and tense situation. There are so many different possibilities that your are always going to have someone thinking you either did too much, or did too little.

That said, I stand by the opinion that the kids should not have been physically searched without first contacting parents for permission. Everything else, given the situation I can understand.

It is not an all out police are bad thread either. You aren't even trying to understand the point attempting to be made here.


I will try one more time.

You keep mentioning case law setting the standard. So lets make this easy to grasp.

Every time you waive your right against unreasonable search, you make it that much easier for it to happen in the future. So the government gets more comfortable waiving that right for you, and before you know it they are kicking in your door because someone heard from a friend that you might possibly be growing pot. Then even when they don't find anything, and you are dead for attempting to protect your family from a home invasion, some asshat will say that you must have done something to deserve it...

Snowball effect, so yea, A can equal C if you connect the dots.

I get it... If someone has a cautious outlook on the current state, then we must be irrational. Check.


And with that, I give up. As I said a few pages ago when I intended not to return to this thread, we will have to agree to disagree. Ok? No hard feelings.

[ParsedOut]

So you'd scare everyone and then sue.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Do you not see any reasonableness in searching customers?

Yes, yes and no. So there.

[einhander]

Point of thread- some of us live in a make believe Jeffersonian paradise. Others live in reality.

[mrsleeve]

has little to do with Jeffersonian paradise it has more to do with the ability to live the way you see fit and make your own life into your own "Paradise" with out the govt getting all up in your shit, with out a really good reason

[einhander]

has little to do with Jeffersonian paradise it has more to do with the ability to live the way you see fit and make your own life into your own "Paradise" with out the govt getting all up in your shit, with out a really good reason

Getting blown up while you sip a latte is a pretty good reason.

Growing some weed and choosing physician assisted suicide are not good reasons.

Think about how they are different.

[mrsleeve]

Govt Overreach no matter the realm or scope is still overreach and is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Unfortunately most people dont see it for what it is you included

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants. -William Pitt

[einhander]

Sleeve, you quote historical quotes like a bearded imam referencing Hadith. Think for yourself, man.

It's isn't over reach, it's government protecting citizens.

And the "what if a bomb goes off while carried on a person" is not a straw man argument.

[mrsleeve]

You can learn a lot from old quotes from great men. The men I quote heavily from were/are much smarter than you or I combined. To discount their wisdom as nothing more than a foot note to history from a long time ago, and has no bearing on the modern world is the folly of the fool.

[einhander]

They also lived a long time ago and said things where the contexts are vastly different.

If you want to quote something, go find some Supreme Court rulings on exigent circumstances and then come share that with the class.

[mrsleeve]

Yes legislation from the benches of the judicial branch of the govt is just what the founders had in mind . Context has changed very little when it comes to both historical tendencies of govt and human nature.

Not arguing that a school or other Govt controlled facility is not a exigent circumstance. The argument is that common sense should have been used and that with in the current crop of youth its cool to see the cops in gear set up for the battlefield come in a search your ass (which they can) rather than use the greater part of valor and that would be FUCKING DISCRETION. But to attempt to avoid piles of law suits for the bamblance chasers you get shit like this

This is just further proof of the over militarization of law reinforcement in this country