Pro-gun myths busted

[smooth]

Straw purchases are illegal, have been for a long time. What do you suggest is the answer?

focusing on the vector: FFL's that violate federal law

again, the point is that some people here are focusing on stolen guns as the main vector of street level gun crime and ignoring where the real issue is.

I already pointed out the reality of some of your favorite examples of "failed" gun laws in places like Chicago where the main source of the guns don't originate in the city but the suburbs where the laws are less strict.

but then we're back to your imaginary boogyman of the feds building registries so they can strip every law abiding citizen of their guns in the apocalypse so we come to the impasse that you force on the conversation every single chance you get

[ParsedOut]

no one said that outliers are irrelevant, but it's stupid to build policy on outliers while ignoring the problems

I know you just like to argue to argue so it's kinda pointless to engage with you, but people have to consider how a law impacts everyone.

parents buying guns for their kids is already illegal so not sure what you guys are advocating here anyway

the issue here is that a number of you guys keep saying that the majority of guns used in crime get stolen and that's how they hit the streets. I posted the relevant research on the topic disputing that claim. unless you come up with some alternative evidence just accept the fact that your assumption was incorrect and either continue being bullheaded about the topic or change your stance in relation to the evidence.

Straw purchases are illegal, have been for a long time. What do you suggest is the answer?

[mrsleeve]

I didn't say that. It's you guys that are trying to use familial purchases to ignore the reality that guns make it into people's hands through straw purchases.

I mean what the fuck are you guys arguing here? just whatever you think there is to argue about? are you arguing that it should be legal for parents to buy their children firearms? that's a dumbass argument for all sorts of reasons (one of them being that it's a felony that you argued gun owners don't do) but it's a non-sequitur to me posting the statistics that more crime is committed by guns that are bought via straw purchases than people stealing them.

What part of that isn't making it into your grey matter?
The article isn't talking about parents buying guns for their kids and them going out on murder sprees...it's talking about all those street crimes you guys constantly bellyache about sourcing their guns from legal vectors because those are the easiest places to obtain guns :\

What is a 42 year old man thats 6' 2" and 225lbs going to do with a Pink 22lr cricket with a pull length of 12 inches ??? Oh yeah he owns it but for all intents and purposes its prolly going to be his 10 year old daughters 1st fire arm.............. It will remain His firearm until its sold or she is old enough under state law to transfer it to her. Since its family a firearm may pass with out any type of paper trail up or down to direct family.. Also in most rural states minors that have completed a hunter safety course are allowed to be in possession a firearm as young as 12 or 13 IIRC, (for appropriate lawful activity) though the weapon is legally their parents for another 5 years......

I suppose since dad bought a 22lr, and a rem 870 and never fired them, (I am the only one thats shot either of them for the most part) and handed them to me when I was 8 and 12 and I still own both of those weapons, those were straw purchase's in your eyes I assume. They were my fathers firearms, until I was old enough for them to be transferred to me if I were to go to the store and buy them my self.....

Fucking idiot.

[smooth]

outlier != irrelevant...but you're one of those "for the greater good" types so I can't blame you for not recognizing that.

no one said that outliers are irrelevant, but it's stupid to build policy on outliers while ignoring the problems

I know you just like to argue to argue so it's kinda pointless to engage with you, but people have to consider how a law impacts everyone.

parents buying guns for their kids is already illegal so not sure what you guys are advocating here anyway

the issue here is that a number of you guys keep saying that the majority of guns used in crime get stolen and that's how they hit the streets. I posted the relevant research on the topic disputing that claim. unless you come up with some alternative evidence just accept the fact that your assumption was incorrect and either continue being bullheaded about the topic or change your stance in relation to the evidence.

[smooth]

Jesus Christ. Not an outlier scenario, in fact its a very very common occurrence in much of the more rural parts of the country.... Just because its a foreign concept to you dose not make it an exception to the norm or a fucking straw buy. Everything to you seems to fall into the straw category ..............

I didn't say that. It's you guys that are trying to use familial purchases to ignore the reality that guns make it into people's hands through straw purchases.

I mean what the fuck are you guys arguing here? just whatever you think there is to argue about? are you arguing that it should be legal for parents to buy their children firearms? that's a dumbass argument for all sorts of reasons (one of them being that it's a felony that you argued gun owners don't do) but it's a non-sequitur to me posting the statistics that more crime is committed by guns that are bought via straw purchases than people stealing them.

What part of that isn't making it into your grey matter?
The article isn't talking about parents buying guns for their kids and them going out on murder sprees...it's talking about all those street crimes you guys constantly bellyache about sourcing their guns from legal vectors because those are the easiest places to obtain guns :\

[mrsleeve]

A lot of undefined terms are getting tossed around but if you're using "gun" to refer to handguns specifically than it very well could, and should, refer to a father buying his son a gun for his birthday. Age of legal ownership, and use under control of a parent/guardian, varies by state, but I'm interpreting your question to be what happens when a parent purchases a gun for a child that isn't legally allowed to own it. That's not what the description is describing, and when discussing the vector of guns making it into underage gang members' hands via adult straw purchases it's disingenuous to try and beat the bushes with another illegal behavior...regardless of whether you think it should be ok to do the behavior.

Obviously the ATF counted that as a theft. What would you, or any sensible person, consider that behavior? But more importantly, why are you defending bad policy on the basis of outlier cases? Every single hypothetical you present is an outlier case but you seem to be implying that policy should be guided by those unlikely situations rather than the more prevalent occurrences.

Jesus Christ. Not an outlier scenario, in fact its a very very common occurrence in much of the more rural parts of the country.... Just because its a foreign concept to you dose not make it an exception to the norm or a fucking straw buy. Everything to you seems to fall into the straw category ..............

[ParsedOut]

But more importantly, why are you defending bad policy on the basis of outlier cases? Every single hypothetical you present is an outlier case but you seem to be implying that policy should be guided by those unlikely situations rather than the more prevalent occurrences.

outlier != irrelevant...but you're one of those "for the greater good" types so I can't blame you for not recognizing that.

[smooth]

And this could describe a father buying his son a gun for his birthday.

For example, the CT shooter took his mother's gun without permission. Does the ATF count that as a theft?

A lot of undefined terms are getting tossed around but if you're using "gun" to refer to handguns specifically than it very well could, and should, refer to a father buying his son a gun for his birthday. Age of legal ownership, and use under control of a parent/guardian, varies by state, but I'm interpreting your question to be what happens when a parent purchases a gun for a child that isn't legally allowed to own it. That's not what the description is describing, and when discussing the vector of guns making it into underage gang members' hands via adult straw purchases it's disingenuous to try and beat the bushes with another illegal behavior...regardless of whether you think it should be ok to do the behavior.

Obviously the ATF counted that as a theft. What would you, or any sensible person, consider that behavior? But more importantly, why are you defending bad policy on the basis of outlier cases? Every single hypothetical you present is an outlier case but you seem to be implying that policy should be guided by those unlikely situations rather than the more prevalent occurrences.

[cunninglinguist]

"Rape" is the Hindi word for "hello."

[The Dark Side of Will]

That's why I said REPORTED.

It's the same situation no matter the country. You think all rapes are reported in the US?

For fuck's sake.

So you're admitting that your argument is trumped up bullshit? nice. At least you can admit it.

% of rapes that get reported in the US? Who knows, but I'm going to guess 40%.

% of rapes that get reported in India? Who knows, but I'm going to guess 0.04%. Nothing happens to the perp, and the victim gets punished by the culture, so why bother reporting?

[ST1G]

rape is now a laughing matter. but srsly India is a fucked up place to be a woman.

No kidding. And I was laughing at Einhander not rape.

[Cabriolet]

LOL at you thinking India reported rape number is accurate.

rape is now a laughing matter. but srsly India is a fucked up place to be a woman.

[ajhostetter]

That's why I said REPORTED.

It's the same situation no matter the country. You think all rapes are reported in the US?

For fuck's sake.

I really just like trolling when you guys get all wound up in here.

[einhander]

REPORTED rapes. There's an incredible amount of sexual violence aimed at the dalit class in India that goes unreported. Just a clarification. There was an in-depth report on this specifically about a year and a half ago. It was in The Economist, not Fox News.

That's why I said REPORTED.

It's the same situation no matter the country. You think all rapes are reported in the US?

For fuck's sake.

[ST1G]

Reported rapes in India per 100,000 is 2.

Reported rapes in the United States per 100,000 is 28.6.


I'm not going to speak to your silly comment about India not being safe, whether related to sexual assault or not...I will suggest you turn off Fox News though.

LOL at you thinking India reported rape number is accurate.