Pro-gun myths busted

[smooth]

This is an interesting article regarding the source of guns used in crimes

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

[camshaftgsxr]

I like guns. I grew up in a house with guns in it, it was assumed that all our neighbours had guns as well. While I don't really believe in carrying sidearms around I'm not 'afraid' of guns in general and I think that the laws here are obviously doing something. Would I like to own a semi auto AK based rifle or shotgun? Hell yeah! Am I mad that I can't because of the gun laws? Not really.

As someone who grew up around, handling and being taught about guns (My Christmas present when I was 12 was a rifle), I feel as though I have a respect for firearms but not some sort of worship for them as it seems many that are labeled as 'gun nuts' do.

This describes me, but in addition I really hate when people try to make some argument that they just have to have a 30 round mag in their ar or ak and how they is gon' git that thar fedrel gubment when they come fir mah guns.

Its not the 1700's anymore gentlemen, the days of overthrowing your government by force are over, the military industrial complex is too large, too close, and too well armed to give two fucks about your idea of rebellion

Also subd.

[einhander]

Gun deaths do not mean murders. This is where the debate gets so screwed up. No one keeps apples to compare to other apples.

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I know that. That's why I differentiated the two in my post.

How was that not clear?

[marshallnoise]

So they were wrong on healthcare costs...That doesn't mean they have an agenda.

Anyway, FBI rates, I believe, are for murders and not gun-related deaths. Even still, 4-5/100k is roughly 10 times the average of other wealthy industrialized countries.

Gun deaths do not mean murders. This is where the debate gets so screwed up. No one keeps apples to compare to other apples.

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[einhander]

The ama has no agennda.................. am I mistaken in remebering their endorsment of the aca and claims the overall cost of health care was going to drop as a result??? Fairly sure the fucking FBI puts the gun death rates at upper 4.x low 5.x per 100k as well.

So they were wrong on healthcare costs...That doesn't mean they have an agenda.

Anyway, FBI rates, I believe, are for murders and not gun-related deaths. Even still, 4-5/100k is roughly 10 times the average of other wealthy industrialized countries.

[marshallnoise]

Hey I agree buddy such crimes in male dominated societies like much of india go largely unreported and punished. Yes its a huge issue there no doubt. Maybe they should let women carry firearms as a way to have a chance to fight back and equalize the force invloved from a larger male or grup of them

The ama has no agennda.................. am I mistaken in remebering their endorsment of the aca and claims the overall cost of health care was going to drop as a result???

Wha wha wha.

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[mrsleeve]

Hey I agree buddy such crimes in male dominated societies like much of india go largely unreported and punished. Yes its a huge issue there no doubt. Maybe they should let women carry firearms as a way to have a chance to fight back and equalize the force invloved from a larger male or grup of them. Honest question what is the viloent crime rates per capita in india anyway

The ama has no agennda.................. am I mistaken in remebering their endorsment of the aca and claims the overall cost of health care was going to drop as a result??? Fairly sure the fucking FBI puts the gun death rates at upper 4.x low 5.x per 100k as well.

[z31maniac]

I aggree more than just firearms are factors but only to a point.

Could it be that many of those asian countries have strict and harsh punnishments in general for even petty crimes. Like a cell you can't stand up in or lie flat in (japan) don't some still practic, how shall we midevil style punishments. (India). Also many of those asian culture's have societal pressure to act honorably above al else. I don't suppose that has anything to do with such things. Not to mention this is not just about gun crime but viloent crime in general.


If you had bothered to read the article or study, you would know gun deaths in the usa have been on the decline to 4.4 per 100k. Down from 5ish per 100k in 2007. That's a lot less than 110. ;)

Yes, India has done an outstanding job using "medieval style punishments" to deter rape, haven't they?

[einhander]

I aggree more than just firearms are factors but only to a point.

Could it be that many of those asian countries have strict and harsh punnishments in general for even petty crimes. Like a cell you can't stand up in or lie flat in (japan) don't some still practic, how shall we midevil style punishments. (India). Also many of those asian culture's have societal pressure to act honorably above al else. I don't suppose that has anything to do with such things. Not to mention this is not just about gun crime but viloent crime in general.


If you had bothered to read the article or study, you would know gun deaths in the usa have been on the decline to 4.4 per 100k. Down from 5ish per 100k in 2007. That's a lot less than 110. ;)

You know as well as I do that punishment isn't a deterrent for most criminals. You've said as much yourself. Culture has some impact, of course, but like I said there are a billion factors at play. Is gun ownership the only reason we have a lot of gun crime/death in the US? No, not at all. But I expect its contribution is statistically significant.

I read the article (practice what you preach, eh) and gun death stats everywhere else seem to point to 10 per 100,000 people in the US. I'm more inclined to believe the American Journal of Medicine (October 2013) than a research institute with an agenda.

Anyway, maybe I should spend less time on this forum and more time taking selfies of me and my beard....think how quickly I could get to 10k posts.

[mrsleeve]

So why do places with absolutely strict gun laws - Japan, Singapore, etc - have almost no crime?

There are about a billion factors at play here. Gun/gun ownership is but one variable.

I aggree more than just firearms are factors but only to a point.

Could it be that many of those asian countries have strict and harsh punnishments in general for even petty crimes. Like a cell you can't stand up in or lie flat in (japan) don't some still practic, how shall we midevil style punishments. (India). Also many of those asian culture's have societal pressure to act honorably above al else. I don't suppose that has anything to do with such things. Not to mention this is not just about gun crime but viloent crime in general.


If you had bothered to read the article or study, you would know gun deaths in the usa have been on the decline to 4.4 per 100k. Down from 5ish per 100k in 2007. That's a lot less than 110. ;)

[einhander]

I would venture another factor is other countries have a more homogenous culture.

India is anything but homogenous and has banned gun ownership. Gun crime there is minimal - less than 1 gun death/100,000 people (US is around 10, I think?).

[smooth]

Then they wouldn't be homogeneous, would they? People who have a similar belief system do not kill each other. The Japanese don't kill each other because they believe in the same values.

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The data is clear on this--there's no dispute on this among anyone who has looked at murders and street crime. This isn't something that people on various sides of political issues dispute. It's a unanimous conclusion. If you want to dispute it make sure you look at the data first.

Stranger to stranger crime across ethnic groups is extremely rare. Almost all violent crime occurs between members of the same race, gender, and age groups. The most violent is a male between his teens and mid to late twenties.

That's also around the time frontal lobe development finishes, which is the part of the brain that controls impulsivity.

These facts: that most violence occurs between members of small networks, is spontaneous, and occurs most frequently among men without fully functional rational choice centers of e brain coupled with the fact that our nations punishment is based in large part on rational choice theory is the main reason our violent crime is so high--not because we have a lot of diversity in this country.

We don't even have a lot of inter-cultural diversity anyway.

[marshallnoise]

That observation would be interesting if not for the fact most, almost all actually, violent street crime occurs within homogenous groups.

Then they wouldn't be homogeneous, would they? People who have a similar belief system do not kill each other. The Japanese don't kill each other because they believe in the same values.

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[smooth]

I would venture another factor is other countries have a more homogenous culture.

That observation would be interesting if not for the fact most, almost all actually, violent street crime occurs within homogenous groups.

[marshallnoise]

I would venture another factor is other countries have a more homogenous culture.