Enough about guns, what's with all the illegal immigrants!?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Specific guidelines of who we are going to take, how many, etc.

I've never heard a good argument for why this shouldn't be "anyone who wants to come here, live peaceably and work hard."

[The Dark Side of Will]

we need a whole new form of government tbh democracy is overrated at least our form of it

We don't have democracy and we never have... by design.

[ParsedOut]

I've never heard a good argument for why this shouldn't be "anyone who wants to come here, live peaceably and work hard."

Because like all humans since the beginning of time, if there aren't consequences to their actions they will take the route of least effort.

If the gov't is willing to "take care" anyone and everyone at the expense of productive tax paying citizens, we'll likely have a huge influx of dependents to cause further drain on an already broken system.

We need to regulate and enforce a strict immigration reform that ensure those who enter are in fact productive members of our society, if they can't handle that...then they shouldn't be here. Simple as that. I still have yet to hear a good reason why my idea (I'm sure it isn't unique, but just my common sense thoughts) wouldn't work. The whole probationary citizen status sounds like a good way to vet out the leeches from those that truly want to work. Given my experiences with immigrant Mexicans...a large percentage of them have no problem putting in a day's work for a modest pay check.

[Vedubin01]

First District Oklahoma Congressman Jim Bridenstine was denied access Tuesday to the Health and Human Services facility at Ft. Sill that is housing up to 1,200 unaccompanied alien children who illegally crossed the southern border into the United States.

Congressman Bridenstine said there is no excuse for denying a Federal Representative from Oklahoma access to a federal facility in Oklahoma where unaccompanied children are being held. Bridenstine says any Member of Congress should have the legal authority to visit a federal youth detention facility without waiting three weeks.
- See more at: http://bartlesvilleradio.com/pages/n....LgHxiAi7.dpuf

[The Dark Side of Will]

Because like all humans since the beginning of time, if there aren't consequences to their actions they will take the route of least effort.

If the gov't is willing to "take care" anyone and everyone at the expense of productive tax paying citizens, we'll likely have a huge influx of dependents to cause further drain on an already broken system.

We need to regulate and enforce a strict immigration reform that ensure those who enter are in fact productive members of our society, if they can't handle that...then they shouldn't be here. Simple as that. I still have yet to hear a good reason why my idea (I'm sure it isn't unique, but just my common sense thoughts) wouldn't work. The whole probationary citizen status sounds like a good way to vet out the leeches from those that truly want to work. Given my experiences with immigrant Mexicans...a large percentage of them have no problem putting in a day's work for a modest pay check.

I didn't say anything about taking care of them.
"Taking care of" immigrants was in fact AVOIDED during the first mass-migration at the turn of the 20th century. That worked out well with very minimal requirements or procedure.

We don't need a lot of requirements; don't need strict requirements... we need *THE RIGHT* requirements, which then become self-enforcing.

[MF DOOM]

I've never heard a good argument for why this shouldn't be "anyone who wants to come here, live peaceably and work hard."

Live peaceably and work hard is fine. But anyone? How much of the world population are we going to let walk in? There has to be limits.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Live peaceably and work hard is fine. But anyone? How much of the world population are we going to let walk in? There has to be limits.

What condition requires a limit?

[MF DOOM]

Our population? You dont think? Think of housing, food, the roads, etc. All in good time, right?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Our population isn't a condition. It's a number. A condition would be "If our population exceeds 500 million, we won't be able to feed everyone". Stating it that way allows intelligent discussion. How much food would 500M people need? How much are we growing now? How much of our arable land are we using? What policies could improve productivity? What policies could we get rid of to improve productivity?

Saying "we need to limit our population" is vapid.

China has its own problems, but they've been able to sustain double digit economic growth and build a highway system that rivals ours over the last 20 years. They have 5 times our population and not much more land area. Population in and of itself is not a limitation.

Look up the mindset of plenty vs. the mindset of scarcity.
Well managed development accelerates with population.

[Farbin Kaiber]

China has its own problems, but they've been able to sustain double digit economic growth and build a highway system that rivals ours over the last 20 years. They have 5 times our population and not much more land area. Population in and of itself is not a limitation.

Isn't their double digit growth a lie, based upon the methods of currency control the government exerts on their system, building and 'growing' for the sake of sustaining the growth numbers, not the factual growth as a nation? Much like the bureaucratic BS in our country where 'offices' and twigs of the branches of our government expend their entire annual budget, even when they don't factually need to expend those funds simply to continue to gain access to growing funding from the government instead of having their funding decreased because they didn't need X amount of $'s for the previous fiscal year?

[mrsleeve]

I've never heard a good argument for why this shouldn't be "anyone who wants to come here, live peaceably and work hard."

How about doing LEGALLY most people have no issues with those that walk up to your front door knock and ask to come in. Kicking in the basement window while your not watching then squatting in your living room, eating your food, watching your BIG TV, using your shit house, and redecorating it too look like their house. I would shoot someone that was trying to enter my house in such a B & E kinda way.

[ParsedOut]

I didn't say anything about taking care of them.
"Taking care of" immigrants was in fact AVOIDED during the first mass-migration at the turn of the 20th century. That worked out well with very minimal requirements or procedure.

We don't need a lot of requirements; don't need strict requirements... we need *THE RIGHT* requirements, which then become self-enforcing.

So you assume that everyone that comes over will work hard when their born citizen neighbors are living off the system and not doing shit all day? Yeah, it seems to me we need to fix our own leeching problem before creating more in mass numbers. Our government at the turn of the 20th century is a far cry of what we've become over the last 20 years. If we're going to let in a large amount of new citizens, they need to be required to fend for themselves for a certain period of time to prove that they are willing to work to be productive members of our society.

In the meantime we need sweeping reforms on our semi-socialist entitlement programs overall, it's time to fucking grow up, kick the bad habits and get a job to take care of yourself and your family.

[smooth]

lmao, you guys talk out your asses about every single topic that you apparently know next to nothing. Sweeping reforms because we have more of an entitlement society than we had 20 years ago? Maybe that sounds true if you've been locked in your bathrooms hugging your knees to your chests waiting for the big guvment to kick your doors in and take your guns...

meanwhile in reality sweeping reform was passed limiting welfare to two years consecutive and five year lifetime maximums and you have to work in order to maintain eligibility. Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act (PRWOA).

[Vedubin01]

http://www.10news.com/news/questions-swirl-as-more-immigrants-hospitalized

[ParsedOut]

lmao, you guys talk out your asses about every single topic that you apparently know next to nothing. Sweeping reforms because we have more of an entitlement society than we had 20 years ago? Maybe that sounds true if you've been locked in your bathrooms hugging your knees to your chests waiting for the big guvment to kick your doors in and take your guns...

meanwhile in reality sweeping reform was passed limiting welfare to two years consecutive and five year lifetime maximums and you have to work in order to maintain eligibility. Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act (PRWOA).

Welfare isn't the only entitlement program, way to pick and choose your leftist rebuttal.