Is nobody talking about whats going on in IRAQ?

[z31maniac]

Because a lot of those dictators protect our interests!

That's my point. It's hypocritical.

We go into Iraq and help France with Libya because of natural resources.

Yet, we give a pass to Assad using chemical weapons on his people because he doesn't have any natural resources to "liberate."

[freeride53]

That's my point. It's hypocritical.

We go into Iraq and help France with Libya because of natural resources.

Yet, we give a pass to Assad using chemical weapons on his people because he doesn't have any natural resources to "liberate."

Haha sorry - its been a rough morning and I didn't have my coffee.

Very true!

[2mAn]

Yea those ISIS folks are extreme extremists, but you hit it on the nose. They are basically killing anyone and everyone and it barely gets any attention. I dont know who the "Yazidi" people are either, but they seem to be the main ones Obama is concerned about. Just a fucked up situation and I had to vent. I may have to go find a wife out there soon, I cant do that if they are all sold/ raped/ murdered (tic)

Also, Sina joon, you think we removed him for the Chemical warfare (that he got from us) or because of the resources you mentioned earlier? Im not saying he was a good person, because he wasnt, but it certainly hasnt been what they (republicans who were in office at the time) said it would be when we removed him.

[freeride53]

Yea those ISIS folks are extreme extremists, but you hit it on the nose. They are basically killing anyone and everyone and it barely gets any attention. I dont know who the "Yazidi" people are either, but they seem to be the main ones Obama is concerned about. Just a fucked up situation and I had to vent. I may have to go find a wife out there soon, I cant do that if they are all sold/ raped/ murdered (tic)

Also, Sina joon, you think we removed him for the Chemical warfare (that he got from us) or because of the resources you mentioned earlier? Im not saying he was a good person, because he wasnt, but it certainly hasnt been what they (republicans who were in office at the time) said it would be when we removed him.

Haha of course not.. Idk why but I must have come across a little more naive sounding that usual today lol.

We gave Saddam his power, mustard gas, etc. everyone (well maybe not middle America) knows that the whole WMD ploy was just to get his ass out of there for our own petrointerests....

I just used the whole 80s war thing as my *own* reason to validate his removal.

It's plainly clear to see that the reason why we removed him was cause of that.

If that WAS the case, we should have hung Reagan and Rumsfeld as well.

[Frog]

Imagine if we had toppled the Syrian government! The region would have been worse than it is today. The whole region would be more stable under control of a few dictators as it was before, and as it probably will end up again. Out of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Lybia, (and Afghanistan); will see how many of these countries will become true democracies in the next 15 years. I don't think a single one will. I think one or two might become semi-dictatorships like Egypt was.

The region and the west was better off before.

[dereliiict]

The problem with current Western involvement is the lack of fortitude to carry out the imperialistic agenda publicly.

If you live in this country, then you are enjoying the rewards of American imperialism. Can't go soft and let it run away now.

[decay]

it's only been tangentially mentioned here that what's happening in iraq is a tribal conflict between sunni and shia; ISIS being the Iraqi sunnis' response to the shit deal they've gotten since a shia PM was put in place 8 years ago.

what hasn't been mentioned was that the borders were drawn long before any of the current conflicts started:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

and they were drawn with the intent of having iraq contain shia, sunni, and kurd factions, because these tribal factions would percieve each other as enemies, and thus direct force at each other, rather than what might have happened if country lines were drawn based on tribal areas, creating a "sunnistan", "shiastan", "kurdistan", etc, which would be a bunch of countries united and capable of projecting force outward.

the united states was not at all involved in drawing up the sykes-picot agreement.

we didn't cause this mess; we've been trying to clean it up, without much success.

[Quinthirty]

Actually, the problem with Western intervention is that we think that we have the same culture as they. That they must adapt to our ways, our culture, our kind of government, when their sets of values are very different from ours. The way to stabilize them as we have all experienced in the past, is to have a dictator above them. A dictator keeps the rogue elements in check because no one would dare go against him, or they'll be off with their heads... Its that simple.

When Saddam Hussein was taken away, they left a power vacuum there, so every Assad, Malik, or Anwar is taking their chance to be the top dog---that's the way of the nomads. It has always been that way, and it will be hard to change that because they are born that way, and enculturated that way.

The Sunnis hate the Shias, and vice versa, so its going to be a jihad among them Muslims.

[einhander]

Actually, the problem with Western intervention is that we think that we have the same culture as they. That they must adapt to our ways, our culture, our kind of government, when their sets of values are very different from ours. The way to stabilize them as we have all experienced in the past, is to have a dictator above them. A dictator keeps the rogue elements in check because no one would dare go against him, or they'll be off with their heads... Its that simple.

When Saddam Hussein was taken away, they left a power vacuum there, so every Assad, Malik, or Anwar is taking their chance to be the top dog---that's the way of the nomads. It has always been that way, and it will be hard to change that because they are born that way, and enculturated that way.

The Sunnis hate the Shias, and vice versa, so its going to be a jihad among them Muslims.

What a load of Orientalist bullshit.

Hilarious, but bullshit just the same.

[Dozyproductions]

What a load of Orientalist bullshit.

Hilarious, but bullshit just the same.

How? There could be a lot of undertones not explained but that's exactly how's it's been panning out.

[einhander]

Anytime some gomer uses words like nomads, enculturated (which isn't a fucking word, by the way), or praises a dictator while talking about the Middle East doesn't know anything about the place.

[Dozyproductions]

Being honest here, what perspective are you hailing from?

[marshallnoise]

How about the word "tribalism?" That ok with you einhander?

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[einhander]

How about the word "tribalism?" That ok with you einhander?

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Yes, actually.

[Liquidity]

I'm not talking about it because no matter what anyone does about it, it's gonna be wrong.

But here's my opinion about it - Nothing anyone can do is going to help. The people of that area need to figure it out themselves. They don't need their hands held like all the millennials who seem to be the most vocal about it. It's only going to make the situation worse - like all the millennials.