Mass Shooting - Umpqua Community College

[mrsleeve]

As usual darrin is over simplifying his argument to.twist it so it will conform to what he thinks the world should be like.

[CorvallisBMW]

For the same reason why open carry would work in society: deterrance.

So if laws are a deterrence then why are gun laws not a deterrence?

Raping kids is more than just going against law, it goes against a societal norm and most people's morality. Shut up.

So does going on a killing spree.

As usual darrin is over simplifying his argument to.twist it so it will conform to what he thinks the world should be like.

It's not oversimplifying at all. I'm asking you and the other gun nuts: why do believe that the act of a criminal ignoring a gun law somehow renders that law worthless, yet the act of a criminal ignoring any other law does not render that law worthless.

[marshallnoise]

Gun laws are not worthless and no one said it would be worthless. For instance, it is illegal to use a gun in a crime.

Restrictions to buying guns or owning guns only affect people who are not criminals and are otherwise honest.

Look no further than what happened in Connecticut at the beginning of this year, maybe last year. Legislature mandated that all AR-15s be registered. This instantly made people either criminals by not complying or it made those who signed up instantly a potential gun confiscation victim.

How many criminals walked into a line to register their AR? None.

[CorvallisBMW]

Gun laws are not worthless and no one said it would be worthless. For instance, it is illegal to use a gun in a crime.

You've said it yourself numerous times, gun laws won't work because criminals will ignore them. I still want to know why gun laws are unique in this.

Restrictions to buying guns or owning guns only affect people who are not criminals and are otherwise honest.

100% of "illegal" guns were legal at one point. The only route for gun to enter the criminal market is through the retail market. Straw sales, trafficking, theft, etc. Make it harder to do any of those things, and you reduce the number of "illegal" guns.

This has been proven over and over in every other country on earth. It's not some kind of theory or belief; it's a repeatable and observable fact.

[marshallnoise]

You've said it yourself numerous times, gun laws won't work because criminals will ignore them. I still want to know why gun laws are unique in this.



100% of "illegal" guns were legal at one point. The only route for gun to enter the criminal market is through the retail market. Straw sales, trafficking, theft, etc. Make it harder to do any of those things, and you reduce the number of "illegal" guns.

This has been proven over and over in every other country on earth. It's not some kind of theory or belief; it's a repeatable and observable fact.

Right. Just ban guns and criminals can get them. Well done Pollyanna.

[CorvallisBMW]

I'm curious about your fascination with "banning guns". Even though nobody who advocates for "gun control" has mentioned (let alone proposed) a total ban on guns, that seems to be the only thing you talk about. It's as if somehow you are intentionally manipulating the statements of others to fit your personal narrative...

When you hear the words "car control", do you automatically think "car ban"?

When you hear the words "portion control", do you automatically think "eating ban"?

[cale]

I still want to know why gun laws are unique in this.

Because of their prevalence in American households, culture and categorized as a right. Rape is morally and legally reprehensible behavior, as is murder. Two friends that know each other who decide to trade or sell a firearm between themselves is not innately immoral, nor is transferring it to someone you believe to be a good person. You're going to try and control behavior which much of the public has no moral qualms with, it's not going to be effective.

The speeding analogy is spot on, however your rebuttal is not, to the point that it works against you. The law is clear cut, however you as an individual take it upon yourself to determine how strictly you'll follow said law. You've determined what is an acceptable deviation from what has been decided as the best course of action for creating order in society. The overwhelming majority of people on the road break the speed limit and roll stop signs. It's small yes, but it's morally acceptable behavior. Slippery slope is slippery, especially when you factor in rights.

[marshallnoise]

I'm curious about your fascination with "banning guns". Even though nobody who advocates for "gun control" has mentioned (let alone proposed) a total ban on guns, that seems to be the only thing you talk about. It's as if somehow you are intentionally manipulating the statements of others to fit your personal narrative...

When you hear the words "car control", do you automatically think "car ban"?

When you hear the words "portion control", do you automatically think "eating ban"?

You said this:

100% of "illegal" guns were legal at one point. The only route for gun to enter the criminal market is through the retail market. Straw sales, trafficking, theft, etc. Make it harder to do any of those things, and you reduce the number of "illegal" guns.

If all illegal guns (dumb terminology) were legal at some point, the only real way to stop them from getting into the wrong hands is to eliminate them from being sold. Your logic states that once a legally owned gun, always an illegally owned gun thereafter.

And newsflash, straw sales, trafficking and theft are already illegal for MANY things.

Tell me, how do you propose to eliminate guns getting into the hands of those who are deemed ineligible to own them AND effectively not infringe on a citizen's right to own a firearm?

[ahrensNW]

Damn this thread went south quick.

[Ether-D]

Ya know, I bet soon the guys in this thread will come to a nice compromise. Yep, they will certainly agree soon.

[LowR3V'in]

Raping kids is more than just going against law, it goes against a societal norm and most people's morality. Shut up.

NOPE.

Raping kids is in the same category as gun owners.

Do you own one of those death devices made for killing?
Might as well go rape kids you scum bag.

When the FUCK will this nation learn??

[mrsleeve]

may you never need to have the cops show up with their guns on your behalf then either.

[marshallnoise]

NOPE.

Raping kids is in the same category as gun owners.

Do you own one of those death devices made for killing?
Might as well go rape kids you scum bag.

When the FUCK will this nation learn??

Lulz

[CorvallisBMW]

Tell me, how do you propose to eliminate guns getting into the hands of those who are deemed ineligible to own them AND effectively not infringe on a citizen's right to own a firearm?

Easy.

1) Background checks required on ALL guns sales, period. You want to sell a gun? You have a responsibility to make sure that the person you're selling it to isn't forbidden by law from owning one. This fits in perfectly with your "responsible gun owner" theory.

2) Licensing and training. Want to buy a gun? Fine. But you need to prove that you know the laws, know basic safety, and know basic operation. This is a machine designed specifically for killing people, it's not a teddy bear. Treat it with respect, understand it's risks.

3) Limit on sales quantities. Want to buy a gun? OK. Want to buy two? Fine. Want to buy 50? Nope. Anyone buying 50 guns is trafficking, period. You can't use 50 guns for protection, or for hunting.

4) Safe storage laws. You must keep your gun locked up or otherwise unavailable to to anyone who isn't you. Your kid grabs your loaded shotgun and blows away a neighbor? Guess what sweetheart, you're liable. It's a deadly weapon and shouldn't be easily accessible to everybody. Someone break in to your house and steal your locked gun? That's OK, you were following the law. No harm, no fowl.

None of these laws would, in any way, infringe on anyone's right to own a firearm. You can still own guns, you can still go down to the range and pop off a few boxes, you can still go hunting. But with those rights come responsibility. Anyone who advocates for rights without responsibility is 1 temper tantrum away from being the next mass shooter.

All of these laws have been put in place in other countries around the world, and all have them have been proven to reduce gun-related crime in every single instance. Oh and guess what? None of those countries subsequently fell under the rule of a tyrannical dictator, either

This isn't theory, this isn't speculation, this isn't a "belief". These are facts, backed up by empirical, observable, and repeatable evidence. You can choose to ignore it all you want; that doesn't make it any less true.

[CorvallisBMW]

nope.

Raping kids is in the same category as mass shooters.

ftfy :)