Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

[mrsleeve]

^
We are not questioning your personal actions, as those are consistent with a more acceptable method of protest. We are questing your defense of willful, deliberate acts of destruction of property with the intent to cause great environmental harm, by your like minded fellow protesters.

The Indians did not have their land rights violated (in this instance), they were greedy, didnt think the shipping company had any other option and tried to extort far more than a fair price for their section of ROW for this project, and GOT NOTHING for their efforts. So they played the race card, and got all the simpletons to rush to the aid of the poor Indians with out questioning anything. I mean really why are your protester buddies not having ANY effect on the progress of the project I have been on since oct. Oh there is not a "oppressed" and "ignored" minority community to make sensational headlines in the media and get the POTUS to step in and ignore the rule of law and the approval of his own regulatory agencies to make big ol showing for the cameras.

If you want to discuss the treatment of the natives in the past, and how their continued dependency on the hand outs from the govt keep them in their shitholes today then that is a topic for a different thread. I urge you to take off your rose tinted glasses you view the world with, and put on some skinny jeans in favor of the social justice warrior knee pads, before we start that conversation.

[decay]

Your method, and philosophy adoption is not going to affect change. I am all for peaceful and lawfull protest. I may need to take part in it some day. But your hurting your own cause with your current course of action.

ok i'll reiterate (one more time...)-

i took no hostile or destructive action out at SR. i went out when the arctic snap hit and since i had rented a pretty nice truck and had tools with me, i got put on construction detail.

i do the "leave no trace" thing; my personal garbage bag stayed in the back of the truck and came back to california with me.

that is non-violent direct action, the best way i'm capable of doing it.

i'm just saying i don't necessarily find too much fault with the actors in this event. they're having their land rights violated.

[marshallnoise]

Yeah, decay. You aren't coming across as someone who has a handle on their emotions or a handle on reason. You just come across as childish and selfish.

There was a book I read as a kid that I didn't realize was an environmentalist manifesto called "The Monkey Wrench Gang." I enjoyed it in 5th grade. Then I got older and realized what they were trying to do and how they were doing it. Destroying the environment in order to save the environment is just fucking nuts. The math don't check.

[mrsleeve]

Also on that note, all 3 sites in IA are repaired and ready to go. Didn't delay anything one little bit......

[naplesE30]

Yes your political motivations are unquestioned. However, your actions supporting such movements are questionable? That is why I question your sincerity? Maybee we are not understanding you well, but much of what you believe seems to be in direct contrast with your actions or advocating of such actions..... protect property by destroying property? Protect the environment by polluting environment? Akin to an alcoholic quiting the bottle by drinking himself to death.

Your method, and philosophy adoption is not going to affect change. I am all for peaceful and lawfull protest. I may need to take part in it some day. But your hurting your own cause with your current course of action. You may not see it because you are entrenched in it, but as an outsider it angers and turns people away from the cause. The vast majority of people do not like destruction of property, or to be inconvenienced. Just my observation, take it for what its worth.

Also, I think we may have had a frost that week, but Im sure we managed to get into the 70's for the high.

[decay]

LOL that a environmentalist had better things to do than clean litter and trash caused by said environmentalists.

it was 10-20 below zero with 40mph winds when i was there. i was building shelters so people didn't get hypothermia. yes i wish they had not left a mess behind, but at the time, that was a secondary concern to making sure they didn't die. (how's the weather in FL, btw?)

you people sure do love your assumptions.

i have explained my political motivations in this thread as many times as sleeve has made his arguments for how the pipeline is justified and being done correctly. you can go back and read; i'm tired of retyping them.

[naplesE30]

I have an optometrist I can suggest for your nearsightedness.

By supporting those who destroy private property you are doing your cause much more harm than good. Much like the looters at a peaceful march, you are destroying the Optics of what may be a well intentioned movement. You're never going to sway anyone to your side by resorting to Anarchy. If I were of the same goals as you, this would piss me off more than the actual pipeline as it completely undermines your supposed cause. Even the tribe could see that, and hence wamted everyone to leave the camps.......

LOL that a environmentalist had better things to do than clean litter and trash caused by said environmentalists. Fucking precious little nugget of info there. I am more inclined to think you are just wanting to be a part of some type of action than actually having a core belief in any type of justice.


Since you seem fond of quoting MLK: he didnt win anyone to his side by slashing bus tires. He won people over by being peacefull at all cost, hence looking like the victims they truely were. If he had advocated destruction of property do you truely believe his cause would have been advanced?

[decay]

well, as i had nothing to do with the event in question, obviously i'm not the only one who has this stance.

there is a justification- petrochemical companies don't get to just define sovereign land as their private property at their convenience.

as far as donations:
sierra club is a bit monolithic- i'm meh on them, but i wouldn't discourage anyone else from donating if they choose to.
i'm not so aligned with peta; i sorta like eating meat but do agree that its production should be ethical and responsible.
i support planned parenthood by utilizing their services; std testing and birth control if i enter into a committed relationship.

admittedly, i should concede that a mess was left behind; but it was not the veterans' camp, and i'm sorry, but i wasn't going to spend my entire time out there doing police call with a garbage bag, i had more important shit to do.

[marshallnoise]

it's not shifting goalposts to say that there is more than one factor involved in a discussion.

marshall, would you actually contribute something meaningful? you being sleeve's cheerleader is kinda pathetic.

What is there to contribute? You are doing a fine job of destroying your argument without either one of our help.

There is no justification for endorsing destruction of private property. Even less justification when the environment you love would get destroyed and potentially killing people along the way.

I know you think this is a war and as such casualties are expected, but its not a war Don Quixote. Its a windmill. You would do better to send money to the Sierra Club, Peta and Planned Parenthood.

[decay]

it's not shifting goalposts to say that there is more than one factor involved in a discussion.

marshall, would you actually contribute something meaningful? you being sleeve's cheerleader is kinda pathetic.

[marshallnoise]

Denial is strong with this one.

[mrsleeve]

Ahhh the ever shifting of the goal posts, fairly sure I a rather well informed,

[decay]

probably true, but the pipeline itself and construction thereof is really only one element of the discussion here. i think you might not be so well-informed on the others...

[marshallnoise]

Digging heels. This is fun to watch.

[mrsleeve]

You can have your "voice" I have no issues with that. but you would be far more effective if it was at least sort of informed on the topic, and understood the implications of what you advocate for before jumping on a band wagon, that has implications that affect everyone else.

I have likely forgotten more than you will ever know about Pipelines.