Religion poll

[rturbo 930]

I get it, the rituals can be strange. If you want a bit of insight in to the Catholic/Protestant split look in to transubstantiation.

It seems to me that a lot of people get great comfort from attending church, participating in the rituals, and that feeling of God being more present (never something I went in for) as a part of regular attendance. Do I really understand that thought process, no, but if it makes them feel at peace it's all good. It should also be remembered that church/rituals are not religion, just the very public, small part of it.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I get it to some extent. People like comfort. The idea that there is something after death, and you get to see all the people who died before you is comforting. So I get it. But it isn't really honest. And I get that people might like church because they have found a community of people who share their beliefs and traditions, etc. People like other people who are like them. It's human nature, nothing wrong with it. And I also get that a church can be a great place to meet people, can be the anchor of a strong community, and can be a good place to find support for those who need it. Like I said, I was at a funeral. A friend had died in a dirtbike accident at just 27 years old. I'm sure his parents are much better off with the support of their fellow church members, than without.

What I don't like is the submission to God, and that you must obey his rules, or you burn in hell. I don't like being told what to do in general, so it's no surprise that I wouldn't like this, but I really just don't get it. It's like they don't even live their own lives, they live their lives the way someone else (God) wants them to. And if something bad happens? God's will. Something good happens? God's will. You didn't earn it, God gave it to you. I flat out do not understand the mentality. And I don't understand having someone preach to me. Feels too much like having someone else think for me vs. thinking for myself. That's why I prefer the Quaker method of worship. We did meeting for worship every Wednesday for 45 minutes. You sit in silence, no one is preaching. If you've got a thought to share, you can stand up and say it. Anyone can. More diversity of thought that way, and IMO encourages one to think for oneself. The actual Quaker meeting on Sundays might be a bit more God oriented, but I've never attended.

[cale]

Unless of course we are discussing anthropogenic global warming....errrrr Um I mean climate change, that "science" is settled with nothing else to revise or learn about it right??????

Are we really going here? It's not settled no, but the Koch brothers are not leading us into a new era of knowledge in that field. Lets stick to the topic at hand, don't go all gwb on me.

[roguetoaster]

When discussing the universe as a singularity in the big bang theory, no they don't. This isn't anything new.

Creation implies a creator, so no. These appear to be two separate thoughts though.

And? Science advances, we learn new things and methods to discover. This isn't a testament to the indecisiveness and inaccuracy of science, it shows that we are refining what it is we know. You describe it similarly to how a creationist would deny evolution on the false claim that science once thought the world was flat. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're quacking faintly like a duck....

This goes back to the creation argument, by ascribing it as an accident and giving baseless odds you assume the end goal (us) was predetermined. We are the result of events, the events were not aligned for us.

I'm fairly with you until the last statement. We cannot prove what spurred the existence of the universe in which we live, so why would you insist after what you said above that events were not aligned by some type of consciousness that we do not understand. To keep an open mind (of the scientific sense) it's allowable that any scenario for creation of the universe is possible, and at this time all are pretty equally probable as we both cannot yet observe the cause, nor likely conceptualize its origin with any certainty.

So, there's really no reason to argue this point, as it's totally a matter of opinion at this juncture.

[mrsleeve]

And? Science advances, we learn new things and methods to discover. This isn't a testament to the indecisiveness and inaccuracy of science, it shows that we are refining what it is we know. You describe it similarly to how a creationist would deny evolution on the false claim that science once thought the world was flat. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're quacking faintly like a duck....

Unless of course we are discussing anthropogenic global warming....errrrr Um I mean climate change, that "science" is settled with nothing else to revise or learn about it right??????

[cale]

So now "Laws of physics don't exist"?

When discussing the universe as a singularity in the big bang theory, no they don't. This isn't anything new.

Physics that that the universe always was and always will be, now because we call it the big bang, it's not creation?

Creation implies a creator, so no. These appear to be two separate thoughts though.

The big bang wasn't even thought of a century ago, and some of us have living relatives that were alive about the time it became widely accepted. Perhaps saying "in my lifetime" wasn't proper. Einstein himself rejected Hubble's law up until his latest memoirs.

And? Science advances, we learn new things and methods to discover. This isn't a testament to the indecisiveness and inaccuracy of science, it shows that we are refining what it is we know. You describe it similarly to how a creationist would deny evolution on the false claim that science once thought the world was flat. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're quacking faintly like a duck....

Am I considered religious because I don't think we are an accident, but also don't think there's a magic man in the sky? Just kind of odd that we are a one in a decillion decillion decillion chance.

This goes back to the creation argument, by ascribing it as an accident and giving baseless odds you assume the end goal (us) was predetermined. We are the result of events, the events were not aligned for us.

[roguetoaster]

I really haven't had much exposure to typical religion. I recently went to a Catholic funeral, and I have to admit I found some aspects of it very strange. Creepy to be honest. Towards the end, they started handing out some kind of cracker. People would get up, and get in line. The cracker represented the body of Christ. Some of them took it themselves and ate it, whereas others had it fed to them which seemed really childlike, despite them being adults. The whole thing just felt very cult-like to me, and generally pretty submissive. Not a lot of individual thinking, just following the others. That's my outsider's perspective, and that experience pretty much sums why I don't do religion. My experience with Quakerism however was pretty mild, and never had anything weird like that. Probably why it's one of few religions I actually respect.

I get it, the rituals can be strange. If you want a bit of insight in to the Catholic/Protestant split look in to transubstantiation.

It seems to me that a lot of people get great comfort from attending church, participating in the rituals, and that feeling of God being more present (never something I went in for) as a part of regular attendance. Do I really understand that thought process, no, but if it makes them feel at peace it's all good. It should also be remembered that church/rituals are not religion, just the very public, small part of it.

[E30 Wagen]

Dude if I'm selling a car, and we agree on a time of 7PM, I expect him to be here at 7PM. Period. 10 minutes late is one thing, an hour? No. And how often does he sell a car? Make a fuckin exception. Or, don't make plans that will conflict with other plans. Also, if you're the one late to a meeting, and you act like the other guy is the is in the wrong, you're an asshole.

Is it really that complicated?

The issue is that holding a grudge against somebody who may or may not have been held up at church which caused him to be an hour late to an informal meeting and then blaming it on the fact that he's a selfish christian is kind of cheeky to complain about. I've had people keep me waiting entire afternoons or kept me up past midnight only to bail out last second, or drive 4 hours to buy a car that was not at all described accurately. Shit happens, just gotta get over it. If somebody had made a 24 hour round trip to buy a car only to discover later that the seller lied and the car is junk, then that's a different situation.

[ak-]

Hitler? Stalin? Mao ZeDong? Josef Mengele?

Could you argue that Josef Mengele personally was more evil than Hitler or vice versa?

[Cabriolet]

I'm a second gen Christian. potstir

[rturbo 930]

Dude if I'm selling a car, and we agree on a time of 7PM, I expect him to be here at 7PM. Period. 10 minutes late is one thing, an hour? No. And how often does he sell a car? Make a fuckin exception. Or, don't make plans that will conflict with other plans. Also, if you're the one late to a meeting, and you act like the other guy is the is in the wrong, you're an asshole.

Is it really that complicated?

[E30 Wagen]

The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented, and then when we got to their house at the agreed upon time, after driving 12+ hours, they let us sit and wait for them an hour while they were late, "held up at church," putting their religion ahead of other people and business[/B].

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter, I will admit that, but that is still no excuse for leaving people who just drove 12+ hours to pay you cash money for a car waiting like that.

Cry me a river, fellow atheist. Maybe you should respect the fact that maybe you were actually an inconvenience to them. Maybe they really did get held up by something they couldn't get away from, or maybe it's the only day of the week that they get to socialize with people who are far more important to them than hurrying off to meet some stranger looking to make a deal. So they ended up inconveniencing you by an hour; I've dealt with much, much worse when buying/selling cars, so quit being a drama queen and fucking get over it. It's this kind of impatient attitude that some atheists have toward anything they perceive as deliberate religious pressure which is really irritating and makes us all look like we're intolerant assholes. You've got to learn to be patient with people sometimes, don't make assumptions and just let shit go because in the grand scheme of things it's nothing.

[ForcedFirebird]

I must not have painted a clear enough picture of that particular situation. This was before my Dad was retired, so he wanted to meet on a Sunday because that was the only day convenient for us to meet since we would be driving to Arkansas from NE Ohio to view the car. The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented, and then when we got to their house at the agreed upon time, after driving 12+ hours, they let us sit and wait for them an hour while they were late, "held up at church," putting their religion ahead of other people and business.

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter, I will admit that, but that is still no excuse for leaving people who just drove 12+ hours to pay you cash money for a car waiting like that.

Uh, if they were at a car show, I would expect them to leave early. Really not that big a deal to leave a car show early to meet someone who just drove half a day to buy your car. It's basic courtesy.

Case in point. The post was clear. Not saying anyone was in the wrong, just looking from the outside in.

Church is the guy's social time was my point. I don't attend an church, but have been to functions and can see how easy it would be to get "caught up in the moment, and lose track of time" so to speak . If someone wanted to meet me on a Sunday of a race weekend, I would be clear to them that the time I leave the track would vary - my wife can attest to that (many times took heat for being late home for family dinner).

Not being there and knowing all the details, I personally would have made the appt. much after my expected arrival.

[rturbo 930]

So what if they were at church, work, or at a nude beach. If they were busy, they were busy! If you replaced "car show" or "e30 meet" in place of church, would your reaction be different?

Uh, if they were at a car show, I would expect them to leave early. Really not that big a deal to leave a car show early to meet someone who just drove half a day to buy your car. It's basic courtesy.

[Vincent Brick]

There is so little respect in this post that it is sickening.

Please explain what you find disrespectful about my post. I don't see it. At all. Most of that was simply repeating my Dad and Step-Mom's reasoning for not retiring down there, how could that ever possibly be deemed disrespectful?

So what if they were at church, work, or at a nude beach. If they were busy, they were busy! If you replaced "car show" or "e30 meet" in place of church, would your reaction be different?

I must not have painted a clear enough picture of that particular situation. This was before my Dad was retired, so he wanted to meet on a Sunday because that was the only day convenient for us to meet since we would be driving to Arkansas from NE Ohio to view the car. The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented, and then when we got to their house at the agreed upon time, after driving 12+ hours, they let us sit and wait for them an hour while they were late, "held up at church," putting their religion ahead of other people and business.

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter, I will admit that, but that is still no excuse for leaving people who just drove 12+ hours to pay you cash money for a car waiting like that.

[MrBurgundy]