Religion poll

[ForcedFirebird]

Yes this is a troll post

Sleeve+R3v=TROLL

Proof!

[mrsleeve]

Wow, what has happened to our educational system, we learned the difference between laws, theory, and theories that govern the forces of measurable, proven laws in like 5th grade.....


Oh well hard to get on with the agw, theories as proven settled hard facts wit out moving the goal posts and blurring those lines.....

Yes this is a troll post

[ForcedFirebird]

In science, a theory is pretty much the pinnacle of proven that you can have. It is a precise framework for understanding a large number of facts.

Gravity is a phenomenon and there are several theories to explain it. We can never prove or test any scientific theory 100%, that's impossible. Theories are proven in the common usage of the word. Hypothesis' are hunches that are untested. Theories have our entire history of knowledge behind them. That's the best we know. Can theories change? Yes, they do when new data is found. But until someone proves it outdated, that's the best knowledge we have.

Denigrating the best knowledge we have is just silly. To call it mere "theories" really under represents just what a scientific theory is.

And fyi, Newton's Laws of Motion fall under Newton's Theory of Gravity.

How can you not proof gravity? How can you not proof the expansion? Now we even just proved relativity last year. Even if the singularity was proven, we would still have to go deeper.

You are missing the point I was making, and zooming in on a detail. We don't even have theories yet as to why/how the singularity even exploded in the first place, so to dismiss any "hypothesis" is just as silly.

...to add, the static universe was a theory, considered fact, so nothing can be dismissed.

Roguetoaster hit the nail on the proverbial head...

I'm fairly with you until the last statement. We cannot prove what spurred the existence of the universe in which we live, so why would you insist after what you said above that events were not aligned by some type of consciousness that we do not understand. To keep an open mind (of the scientific sense) it's allowable that any scenario for creation of the universe is possible, and at this time all are pretty equally probable as we both cannot yet observe the cause, nor likely conceptualize its origin with any certainty.

So, there's really no reason to argue this point, as it's totally a matter of opinion at this juncture.

[Kershaw]

In science, a theory is pretty much the pinnacle of proven that you can have. It is a precise framework for understanding a large number of facts.

Gravity is a phenomenon and there are several theories to explain it. We can never prove or test any scientific theory 100%, that's impossible. Theories are proven in the common usage of the word. Hypothesis' are hunches that are untested. Theories have our entire history of knowledge behind them. That's the best we know. Can theories change? Yes, they do when new data is found. But until someone proves it outdated, that's the best knowledge we have.

Denigrating the best knowledge we have is just silly. To call it mere "theories" really under represents just what a scientific theory is.

And fyi, Newton's Laws of Motion fall under Newton's Theory of Gravity.

[ForcedFirebird]

Lol. This is a pet peeve of mine. You're confusing two different usages of the same word. Do you think the Theory of Gravity is "only a theory"? You can't dismiss them like that without looking pretty silly.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Until proven, they are, no? You can prove gravity (Newton's LAW), but when discussing something that happened somewhere between 13m and 15m years ago is a different story. Universe expansion was a theory until we could measure the distances between objects (Hubble's LAW), prior to that the theory was the universe was static and was/will always be there. I am using the word in the exact context of the definition you quoted.

[Kershaw]

but they are after all - theories.

Lol. This is a pet peeve of mine. You're confusing two different usages of the same word. Do you think the Theory of Gravity is "only a theory"? You can't dismiss them like that without looking pretty silly.

Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3]

It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often ambiguously contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from, and in contrast to, the common vernacular usage of the word "theory". As used in everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" implies that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, idea, or, hypothesis;[4] such a usage is the opposite of the word 'theory' in science. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science (less ambiguously called a "scientific prediction") versus "prediction" in vernacular speech, denoting a mere hope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

[z31maniac]

Could you argue that Josef Mengele personally was more evil than Hitler or vice versa?

I'm sure you could make an argument either way, however, that was not the point of the post.

The point of the post was that I disagree that are no inherently evil people, or that NO ONE regardless of what they have done would deserve to rot in hell (If such a fictitious place existed).

[dereliiict]

Please explain what you find disrespectful about my post. I don't see it. At all. Most of that was simply repeating my Dad and Step-Mom's reasoning for not retiring down there, how could that ever possibly be deemed disrespectful?




This was before my Dad was retired, so he wanted to meet on a Sunday because that was the only day convenient for us to meet


The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented.

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter.

Okay, so I will try to not reiterate what has already been stated after this post, but I have outlined the disrespectful selfishness of your logic.

But:

The "shitty" guy told you beforehand that he didn't want to meet on a Sunday due to important to him reasons, but your family had to push it until he broke because it was convenient for them, ignoring his beliefs and generally being inconsiderate of any other.

Then had the audacity to be upset when he wasn't bowing to their beck and call.

Sorry not sorry, I would tell you to promptly go fuck yourself. Being a seller has its limitations and customers are fired every day. You sound like the product of some very fireable customers.


Allow me to phrase it this way: his mother died and the funeral was on Sunday, but your family could only buy his car on that Sunday because your dad may have to take off work on Monday if the seller couldn't meet Sunday, at his mothers funeral. So is the guy supposed to cancel anything that matters, for you? Why? You aren't working with him, at all.

Maybe I should have said your post was selfish, but the disrespect really comes in when you second generationally display a lack of knowledge publicly and as fact about an entire region based upon one interaction, that you never had, in BFE Arkansas. Take a look in the mirror man.


Also, very non religious here, though I agree with the "we come to earth until we learn what we need" energy school.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[BECKSTER]

I don't see my faith as a religion because I'm not following a set of traditions and rules, so I'd consider my self spiritual.

I'm simply living the way Jesus did because I believe he died for me so I can have eternal salvation.

Christianity has been watered down and distorted in so many different ways that I don't really like being called a Christian anymore.

[E30 Wagen]

holy shit is this thread actually a thing? Have we digressed as a forum to this??? This is the epitome of the politics section. lmao I love it!


if I were to answer I would say I am spiritual but not religious. So you need to edit your poll to accommodate for my beliefs. Merry Christmas.

What's wrong with this thread, and how would you edit the poll? I figured I'd get a response like yours and decided it would be more interesting to see how people cross the line one way or the other instead of a basic poll listing all the major religions.

[2mAn]

Science is a liar.....






sometimes.






Im not going to be some stupid science bitch

[Das Delfin]

holy shit is this thread actually a thing? Have we digressed as a forum to this??? This is the epitome of the politics section. lmao I love it!


if I were to answer I would say I am spiritual but not religious. So you need to edit your poll to accommodate for my beliefs. Merry Christmas.

[rturbo 930]

^^
It's good that you see the reason for some people's reliance on church/rituals.

Ultimately, we all submit to someone, something, or face the consequences, so in many ways it's easier to accept God as some sort of ultimate authority. But the way in which I learned my faith it's not so cut and dry as whatever happens on earth is the will of God. For me it's very much a hands off management, if you screw up, it's on you, but you can come back from it, if you something good happens you should acknowledge that it happened and be thankful for it (as it may be the grace of God), if something awful happens you should reflect on the cause/impact.

What I think you're talking about is predestination, wherein good, bad or indifferent (or as some put it, reasons unknown) you're damned or not. That, along with several other traditional Calvinist points are in my opinion misguided in more than one way, but I'd encourage you to read up on Calvinism specifically.

I'll admit that I'm actually pretty ignorant to the inner workings of religion. I don't think I've ever been to a church aside from a wedding or funeral, so most of what I'm going off of is what I see people say and do, TV shows, etc. And part of what I said there was inspired by something I saw someone say that has stuck in my mind because of how ridiculous it was. Referring to someone who had basically started going downhill, and then got their shit back together having been inspired by some book, this person said (paraphrasing) "I hope he realizes that it was because of God's grace that he got his life together, not because he read a book."

It's this sort of thing that just drives me mad with regards to religion. I know it's one person, but I know she's not the only person who thinks this. Takes all credit away from the person who deserves it, and hands it to God.

The views that you described sound much more reasonable. I've got no problem with that.

Preaching, specifically sermons are to me more like a class lecture, and I try to take away a new way of looking at a teaching, thought or issue afterwards. If a pastor were to just stand up there and quote scripture without presenting a meaningful thought I wouldn't attend.

Although I have not attended a Quaker meeting it does sound interesting, and I do hope you don't think all Christians, Muslims and Jews (which I believe generally attempt to worship the same God [some polytheists seems to worship an ultimate God in various forms/traits] - shocking, I know!) are as dogmatic as you made it sound.

Never been to church, so I don't know how sermons go. I guess I hear too much about the wacky parts of religion. Not surprising, that's what people are interested in, so that's what sells. I guess it's not the bible-based echo chamber I thought it was lol. Or maybe it is. Depends on the church probably, and the guy preaching.

Yeah, I know that everyone sort of does their own brand of religion with regards to how far they go with it and whatnot, at least in the western world. Easier to generalize. I don't really care if someone is religious or not if they keep it to themselves. Regardless of how it's taught, human beings have free will, so they can accept or reject any idea that is presented to them. Regarding Islam though? I will say that I believe there is too much acceptance and not enough rejection of ideas by too many of its followers. Based on what I see, what I hear, and don't hear, I don't have a favorable view of Islam. I'll leave it at that.

[roguetoaster]

^^
It's good that you see the reason for some people's reliance on church/rituals.

Ultimately, we all submit to someone, something, or face the consequences, so in many ways it's easier to accept God as some sort of ultimate authority. But the way in which I learned my faith it's not so cut and dry as whatever happens on earth is the will of God. For me it's very much a hands off management, if you screw up, it's on you, but you can come back from it, if you something good happens you should acknowledge that it happened and be thankful for it (as it may be the grace of God), if something awful happens you should reflect on the cause/impact.

What I think you're talking about is predestination, wherein good, bad or indifferent (or as some put it, reasons unknown) you're damned or not. That, along with several other traditional Calvinist points are in my opinion misguided in more than one way, but I'd encourage you to read up on Calvinism specifically.

Preaching, specifically sermons are to me more like a class lecture, and I try to take away a new way of looking at a teaching, thought or issue afterwards. If a pastor were to just stand up there and quote scripture without presenting a meaningful thought I wouldn't attend.

Although I have not attended a Quaker meeting it does sound interesting, and I do hope you don't think all Christians, Muslims and Jews (which I believe generally attempt to worship the same God [some polytheists seems to worship an ultimate God in various forms/traits] - shocking, I know!) are as dogmatic as you made it sound.

[ForcedFirebird]

When discussing the universe as a singularity in the big bang theory, no they don't. This isn't anything new.



Creation implies a creator, so no. These appear to be two separate thoughts though.



And? Science advances, we learn new things and methods to discover. This isn't a testament to the indecisiveness and inaccuracy of science, it shows that we are refining what it is we know. You describe it similarly to how a creationist would deny evolution on the false claim that science once thought the world was flat. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're quacking faintly like a duck....



This goes back to the creation argument, by ascribing it as an accident and giving baseless odds you assume the end goal (us) was predetermined. We are the result of events, the events were not aligned for us.

Not quacking. Perhaps this isn't the best place for this discussion as it has nothing to do with "religion".

Explain to me if time didn't exist in the singularity, how could it end to become the universe? If it has and end, then there would be a time marker - an end. If time truly did not exist before, would there be no end or no beginning?

So, because I feel there was something that kick started this whole Universe, and perhaps we aren't just lucky, I am religious? Sorry if you read more than that.

I do find it interesting that the Jewish faith talk about in Genesis what scientists now regard as truth. (disclaimer: I am not Jewish, either)

You can't possibly say "it didn't happen like that" simply based on what others' theorize.

If you are to be scientific about it, it has to be subjective. To say that there wasn't outside intervention is just as bad as saying there was. It's always going to be a chicken and egg. We have no idea WTF happened, so if one wants to believe or theorize, there is no right or wrong until, like any theorem, it's proven.

And as far as baseless odds, sure I made up a number, but have you heard scientists talk about the effect on the whole process just a few moments would make? According to more theories and models, AFTER the bang, the universe should have collapsed back on itself immediately - or may just do so at any time, even.

Again, this is a chicken and egg discussion. There is no right or wrong answer, and it can go on for days. LOL @ Sleeve for bringing up GW thread....