Trump Thread 2.0

[z31maniac]

You can’t seriously think a primary/secondary education is not a right in a first world/advance civilization... maybe it’s not specifically written in some arbitrary list of rights written 200+ years ago...

Arbitrary? Interesting.

Do you own a gun? Well the 2nd Amendment is old and arbitrary and the Feds will be at your door soon to confiscate them.

Seriously, if you want to debate with the adults, you can't still mentally be a child.

[parkerbink]

Wow, I am really shocked at the total lack of empathy/understanding of what it means to be a member of any country let alone America.

I'm not taking the time to unpack all the anger I just read but will say to chicken, that man YOU HIT (I get you say he jumped in front of you trying to kill himself but that is your side and as Trump says, Porter says he is innocent so you have to listen to him) In most places if you hit a pedestrian you are responsible.

You say education is not a right? It is the law, kids MUST go to school. I grew up in Manhattan and went to private school although NYC has a large public system.

To Z31, dude really? You don't have to pay for someone's 22 kids, you can move to another country or buy an island and set any rules you like, but as long as you are here, the laws of the U.S. are your problem due to YOUR CHOICE.

[Massive Lee]

Food for thought for those living in their bubble. "Why my taxes should pay for other kids' education?" Remember that a better educated population also pays more taxes from better paying jobs. It reduces crime rate, medical expenses, social security expenses... etc. It benefits everyone. ;-)

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-ways-america-is-like-a-third-world-country-20140305

"4. Education

The U.S. is among only three nations in the world that does not guarantee paid maternal leave (the other two are Papua New Guinea and Swaziland). This means many poor American mothers must choose between raising their children and keeping their jobs. The U.S. education system is plagued with structural racial biases, like the fact that schools are funded at the local, rather than national level. That means that schools attended by poor black people get far less funding than the schools attended by wealthier students. The Department of Education has confirmed that schools with high concentrations of poor students have lower levels of funding. It's no wonder America has one of the highest achievement gaps between high income and low income students, as measured by the OECD. Schools today are actually more racially segregated than they were in the 1970s. Our higher education system is unique among developed nations in that is funded almost entirely privately, by debt. Students in the average OECD country can expect about 70 percent of their college tuition to be publicly funded; in the United States, only about 40 percent of the cost of education is publicly-funded. That's one reason the U.S. has the highest tuition costs of any OECD country."

[z31maniac]

Wow, I am really shocked at the total lack of empathy/understanding of what it means to be a member of any country let alone America.

I'm not taking the time to unpack all the anger I just read but will say to chicken, that man YOU HIT (I get you say he jumped in front of you trying to kill himself but that is your side and as Trump says, Porter says he is innocent so you have to listen to him) In most places if you hit a pedestrian you are responsible.

You say education is not a right? It is the law, kids MUST go to school. I grew up in Manhattan and went to private school although NYC has a large public system.

To Z31, dude really? You don't have to pay for someone's 22 kids, you can move to another country or buy an island and set any rules you like, but as long as you are here, the laws of the U.S. are your problem due to YOUR CHOICE.

I don't even know what your second paragraph of nonsense means. No, if someone jumps out in front of you, you aren't responsible. Did it occur to you why Chinese and Russians have so many dashcams? To prevent people who do this, look on YouTube and you'll find hours of footage of people trying to commit insurance fraud.

Just because it's the law to do X doesn't mean it is a right. This is a fundamental problem with this country, people don't understand basic words, the constitution, or just the real world in general.

Yes, I do pay for people's education. Property taxes pay for schools. And I'm forced through possibility of extra fees and jail time to do so.

I should move because you don't understand what a "right" is? Why don't you move to a Nordic country? Spain (great economy)! Italy (great economy)! Germany? Or any number of places that aren't here.

You show time and time again your arguments are based on emotion and not facts. That's why you continually go "Man no empathy"

Why should I have empathy for people who break the law?

It's one thing to have empathy for someone who has real problems. It's another to have empathy for someone who continues to make poor choice after poor choice after poor choice, even when presented the information on why it's a poor choice.

[parkerbink]

I don't even know what your second paragraph of nonsense means. No, if someone jumps out in front of you, you aren't responsible. Did it occur to you why Chinese and Russians have so many dashcams? To prevent people who do this, look on YouTube and you'll find hours of footage of people trying to commit insurance fraud.

Just because it's the law to do X doesn't mean it is a right. This is a fundamental problem with this country, people don't understand basic words, the constitution, or just the real world in general.

Yes, I do pay for people's education. Property taxes pay for schools. And I'm forced through possibility of extra fees and jail time to do so.

I should move because you don't understand what a "right" is? Why don't you move to a Nordic country? Spain (great economy)! Italy (great economy)! Germany? Or any number of places that aren't here.

You show time and time again your arguments are based on emotion and not facts. That's why you continually go "Man no empathy"

Why should I have empathy for people who break the law?

It's one thing to have empathy for someone who has real problems. It's another to have empathy for someone who continues to make poor choice after poor choice after poor choice, even when presented the information on why it's a poor choice.

How many things are you trying to tie together? My response to you was regarding anger and education.

Without education, we can't compete. Look at what has happened over the last two decades. We have fallen down the ranking of nations.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/on-the-world-stage-us-students-fall-behind/2016/12/05/610e1e10-b740-11e6-a677-b608fbb3aaf6_story.html?utm_term=.136d31514a3c

A far as moving, why should I move? I'm not whining about where my taxes are going.

As far as the other issues you are trying to conflate, dreamers were kids that were brought by their parents PRIOR to their having any legal right to contest decisions or know what was happening, for the most part, they are all contributing members of society and even a large percentage of Republicans agree they should be given a path to residency.

As far as your other points, most illegals come here on a tourist visa via air and don't leave. Walls and border guards are useless for them.

We do need secure borders and have for decades beefed them up, they can use more work but not a great big 3000-mile wall.

I find when I think negatively about a person place or thing based solely on their skin, origin or nation it is me that needs to take a look at what is making me feel inferior.

Bottom line, being angry is not good for the psyche, you might want to look into why it is that you are so angry.

[z31maniac]

I'm not angry bro, I'm pointing out your inability to be objective. As usual, you say education is a right, we say no it's not, so you move the goal posts and say without we can't compete. Well no shit. Do you think this is revolutionary? Do you think you are profound for this statement?

I'm not whining, I don't mind paying those taxes because I want to be in an educated society........I was pointing out the hypocrisy.


I promise you illegals working shit jobs aren't making me feel inferior. You continue to miss the point.

You're projecting bro, all I said was illegals, I've never made mention of where they are from or the color of their skin. But I realize making assumptions is easier.

[parkerbink]

It is in several posts, I'm not searching for more, here is one where you whine about taxes.

Good for you for pulling yourself out of what was destined to be poverty for you and your family. Buy if you understood basics, you may never had to have to do that to begin with.............since you don't understand nearly every income conversation is based off gross since there are so many tax breaks and other things..................given to leeches like you that my non-child self has to pay for.

Why should I pay for your children's education through property taxes?

Basic education and equality of education is a RIGHT:

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/know.html?src=ft

Your Right to Equality in Education

https://www.aclu.org/other/your-right-equality-education

At this point, it is clear all you want is an argument and are being a strawman.

[Mediumrarechicken]

Wow, I am really shocked at the total lack of empathy/understanding of what it means to be a member of any country let alone America.

I'm not taking the time to unpack all the anger I just read but will say to chicken, that man YOU HIT (I get you say he jumped in front of you trying to kill himself but that is your side and as Trump says, Porter says he is innocent so you have to listen to him) In most places if you hit a pedestrian you are responsible.

You say education is not a right? It is the law, kids MUST go to school. I grew up in Manhattan and went to private school although NYC has a large public system.

To Z31, dude really? You don't have to pay for someone's 22 kids, you can move to another country or buy an island and set any rules you like, but as long as you are here, the laws of the U.S. are your problem due to YOUR CHOICE.

Nice assumption bub. Obviously it wasn't my fault or else I would have been charged with something right? Well I wasn't because I had a dash cam that showed him walking the same way I was going then looking over his shoulder and then bolting out in front of me, he also had a suicide note wrapping his ID. So why don't you stop being such an ignoramus

[parkerbink]

Nice assumption bub. Obviously it wasn't my fault or else I would have been charged with something right? Well I wasn't because I had a dash cam that showed him walking the same way I was going then looking over his shoulder and then bolting out in front of me, he also had a suicide note wrapping his ID. So why don't you stop being such an ignoramus

Nothing on the interwebs is false so okidoke.

You calling me an ignoramus is a badge of honor I'll wear with pride.

[lambo]

Education is not a right.

Let me guess, you have kid(s)? See that's the problem, people like socialism when it benefits them, but not when it's something they don't like.

No I don't have kids. And I completely agree with the idea that people should not have kids until they are able to support them. However, I do not agree with the notion of the son living with the father's sins. If people have kids and are not able to support them, I don't believe they should be condemned to the same mistakes because their parents could not afford to educate them. I believe it is our duty to help them... for the betterment of society.

I agree that an educated population is desirable, but you aren't explaining why I should pay someone else's way.

Because you have a vested interest in the well being of the country. An educated country is a successful country. An educated country is a safe country. Why would you not want to invest in the success and safety of your country?

Arbitrary? Interesting.

Do you own a gun? Well the 2nd Amendment is old and arbitrary and the Feds will be at your door soon to confiscate them.

Seriously, if you want to debate with the adults, you can't still mentally be a child.

Just because they're arbitrary doesn't mean I don't agree with them. I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. I'm just saying that you're basing the ENTIRE concept of the very complex notion of human rights on some document a group of guys wrote back in the 1700's. That is somewhat arbitrary by definition.

[parkerbink]

https://youtu.be/Rjab8fanzHc

[mbonder]

Why should I have empathy for people who break the law?

And there it is, the cognitive dissonance that you've got is interesting. You rail against people that break the law (illegals) yet you ask why you should be forced to follow the law (fund schools through property taxes). Can't have it both ways, you either follow the law or you don't. You can't complain about certain laws being broken and then turn around and ask why you can't break other laws.

And I get it, you didn't vote to have schools funded through everyone's property taxes, but then again, none of us voted for the Bill of Rights or many other laws that were passed before our time, but yet contributing citizens follow them anyway because they understand that's how the system works. Like it or not, the laws are the laws and if you don't like them, elect people that will change them.

Beyond that, education has been shown to pay back what is put in many times over in many different positive ways for communities. I don't have children and I have no problem educating the next generation, remember, they'll be the ones that wipe our asses when we're old and gray.

[decay]

...or the ones putting an elbow through your car window if they don't have the kind of education you need to make a living.

[cale]

I think some of you are failing to pick up what z31 is trying to say. He's not once made the claim he shouldn't be paying for your kids education, he was presenting an argument to highlight hypocrisy.

And there it is, the cognitive dissonance that you've got is interesting. You rail against people that break the law (illegals) yet you ask why you should be forced to follow the law (fund schools through property taxes). Can't have it both ways, you either follow the law or you don't. You can't complain about certain laws being broken and then turn around and ask why you can't break other laws..

This is a dumb argument. As a citizen you are entitled to question what your tax dollars are spent on, to ensure they're being used appropriately and being used to create results. It has nothing to do with illegal immigration and enforcing laws relating to it.

Something being law doesn't mean it's by default morally just or logically the best solution. Essentially you're making the argument that something is right or wrong based on the law governing it, you're trying to put the cart before the horse.

[mbonder]

As a citizen you are entitled to question what your tax dollars are spent on, to ensure they're being used appropriately and being used to create results.

That's my point relating to education. This debate was made before the laws mandating that property taxes be used for education. The cart wasn't put before the horse. Just because the debate happened far before any of us living in the present, doesn't mean that the arguments weren't considered and appropriate action was taken.

Now if you are arguing that times have changed and education no longer creates a stronger society and therefore property taxes shouldn't be used to support education, then you'd have a right to argue against such spending. But I haven't seen a single study or any research that supports the idea that education is a negative for society.