Trump Thread 2.0

**z31maniac** · 02-10-2018, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by lambo

You can’t seriously think a primary/secondary education is not a right in a first world/advance civilization... maybe it’s not specifically written in some arbitrary list of rights written 200+ years ago...

Arbitrary? Interesting.

Do you own a gun? Well the 2nd Amendment is old and arbitrary and the Feds will be at your door soon to confiscate them.

Seriously, if you want to debate with the adults, you can't still mentally be a child.

**parkerbink** · 02-10-2018, 05:00 AM

Wow, I am really shocked at the total lack of empathy/understanding of what it means to be a member of any country let alone America.

I'm not taking the time to unpack all the anger I just read but will say to chicken, that man YOU HIT (I get you say he jumped in front of you trying to kill himself but that is your side and as Trump says, Porter says he is innocent so you have to listen to him) In most places if you hit a pedestrian you are responsible.

You say education is not a right? It is the law, kids MUST go to school. I grew up in Manhattan and went to private school although NYC has a large public system.

To Z31, dude really? You don't have to pay for someone's 22 kids, you can move to another country or buy an island and set any rules you like, but as long as you are here, the laws of the U.S. are your problem due to YOUR CHOICE.

**Massive Lee** · 02-10-2018, 06:53 AM

Food for thought for those living in their bubble. "Why my taxes should pay for other kids' education?" Remember that a better educated population also pays more taxes from better paying jobs. It reduces crime rate, medical expenses, social security expenses... etc. It benefits everyone. ;-)

Six Ways America Is Like a Third-World Country

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-ways-america-is-like-a-third-world-country-20140305

Our society lags behind the rest of the developed world in education, health care, violence and more

"4. Education

The U.S. is among only three nations in the world that does not guarantee paid maternal leave (the other two are Papua New Guinea and Swaziland). This means many poor American mothers must choose between raising their children and keeping their jobs. The U.S. education system is plagued with structural racial biases, like the fact that schools are funded at the local, rather than national level. That means that schools attended by poor black people get far less funding than the schools attended by wealthier students. The Department of Education has confirmed that schools with high concentrations of poor students have lower levels of funding. It's no wonder America has one of the highest achievement gaps between high income and low income students, as measured by the OECD. Schools today are actually more racially segregated than they were in the 1970s. Our higher education system is unique among developed nations in that is funded almost entirely privately, by debt. Students in the average OECD country can expect about 70 percent of their college tuition to be publicly funded; in the United States, only about 40 percent of the cost of education is publicly-funded. That's one reason the U.S. has the highest tuition costs of any OECD country."

**z31maniac** · 02-10-2018, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by parkerbink

Wow, I am really shocked at the total lack of empathy/understanding of what it means to be a member of any country let alone America.

I'm not taking the time to unpack all the anger I just read but will say to chicken, that man YOU HIT (I get you say he jumped in front of you trying to kill himself but that is your side and as Trump says, Porter says he is innocent so you have to listen to him) In most places if you hit a pedestrian you are responsible.

You say education is not a right? It is the law, kids MUST go to school. I grew up in Manhattan and went to private school although NYC has a large public system.

To Z31, dude really? You don't have to pay for someone's 22 kids, you can move to another country or buy an island and set any rules you like, but as long as you are here, the laws of the U.S. are your problem due to YOUR CHOICE.

I don't even know what your second paragraph of nonsense means. No, if someone jumps out in front of you, you aren't responsible. Did it occur to you why Chinese and Russians have so many dashcams? To prevent people who do this, look on YouTube and you'll find hours of footage of people trying to commit insurance fraud.

Just because it's the law to do X doesn't mean it is a right. This is a fundamental problem with this country, people don't understand basic words, the constitution, or just the real world in general.

Yes, I do pay for people's education. Property taxes pay for schools. And I'm forced through possibility of extra fees and jail time to do so.

I should move because you don't understand what a "right" is? Why don't you move to a Nordic country? Spain (great economy)! Italy (great economy)! Germany? Or any number of places that aren't here.

You show time and time again your arguments are based on emotion and not facts. That's why you continually go "Man no empathy"

Why should I have empathy for people who break the law?

It's one thing to have empathy for someone who has real problems. It's another to have empathy for someone who continues to make poor choice after poor choice after poor choice, even when presented the information on why it's a poor choice.

**parkerbink** · 02-10-2018, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by z31maniac

I don't even know what your second paragraph of nonsense means. No, if someone jumps out in front of you, you aren't responsible. Did it occur to you why Chinese and Russians have so many dashcams? To prevent people who do this, look on YouTube and you'll find hours of footage of people trying to commit insurance fraud.

Just because it's the law to do X doesn't mean it is a right. This is a fundamental problem with this country, people don't understand basic words, the constitution, or just the real world in general.

Yes, I do pay for people's education. Property taxes pay for schools. And I'm forced through possibility of extra fees and jail time to do so.

I should move because you don't understand what a "right" is? Why don't you move to a Nordic country? Spain (great economy)! Italy (great economy)! Germany? Or any number of places that aren't here.

You show time and time again your arguments are based on emotion and not facts. That's why you continually go "Man no empathy"

Why should I have empathy for people who break the law?

It's one thing to have empathy for someone who has real problems. It's another to have empathy for someone who continues to make poor choice after poor choice after poor choice, even when presented the information on why it's a poor choice.

How many things are you trying to tie together? My response to you was regarding anger and education.

Without education, we can't compete. Look at what has happened over the last two decades. We have fallen down the ranking of nations.

U.S. students’ academic achievement still lags that of their peers in many other countries

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

American students continue to rank around the middle of the pack, and behind many other advanced industrial nations, in international assessments of math, science and reading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/on-the-world-stage-us-students-fall-behind/2016/12/05/610e1e10-b740-11e6-a677-b608fbb3aaf6_story.html?utm_term=.136d31514a3c

A far as moving, why should I move? I'm not whining about where my taxes are going.

As far as the other issues you are trying to conflate, dreamers were kids that were brought by their parents PRIOR to their having any legal right to contest decisions or know what was happening, for the most part, they are all contributing members of society and even a large percentage of Republicans agree they should be given a path to residency.

As far as your other points, most illegals come here on a tourist visa via air and don't leave. Walls and border guards are useless for them.

We do need secure borders and have for decades beefed them up, they can use more work but not a great big 3000-mile wall.

I find when I think negatively about a person place or thing based solely on their skin, origin or nation it is me that needs to take a look at what is making me feel inferior.

Bottom line, being angry is not good for the psyche, you might want to look into why it is that you are so angry.

**z31maniac** · 02-10-2018, 08:41 AM

I'm not angry bro, I'm pointing out your inability to be objective. As usual, you say education is a right, we say no it's not, so you move the goal posts and say without we can't compete. Well no shit. Do you think this is revolutionary? Do you think you are profound for this statement?

I'm not whining, I don't mind paying those taxes because I want to be in an educated society........I was pointing out the hypocrisy.

I promise you illegals working shit jobs aren't making me feel inferior. You continue to miss the point.

You're projecting bro, all I said was illegals, I've never made mention of where they are from or the color of their skin. But I realize making assumptions is easier.

**parkerbink** · 02-10-2018, 09:09 AM

It is in several posts, I'm not searching for more, here is one where you whine about taxes.

Originally posted by z31maniac

Good for you for pulling yourself out of what was destined to be poverty for you and your family. Buy if you understood basics, you may never had to have to do that to begin with.............since you don't understand nearly every income conversation is based off gross since there are so many tax breaks and other things..................given to leeches like you that my non-child self has to pay for.

Why should I pay for your children's education through property taxes?

Basic education and equality of education is a RIGHT:

Know Your Rights

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/know.html?src=ft

Introduction page for civil rights enforced by the Office for Civil Rights

Your Right to Equality in Education

Your Right to Equality in Education | American Civil Liberties Union

https://www.aclu.org/other/your-right-equality-education

Getting an education isn't just about books and grades - we're also learning how to participate fully in the life of this nation. (We're tomorrow's leaders after all!) But in order to really participate, we need to know our rights - otherwise we may lose them. The highest law in our land is the U.S. Constitution, which has some amendments, known as the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights guarantees that the government can never deprive people in the U.S. of certain fundamental rights including the right to freedom of religion and to free speech and the due process of law. Many federal and state laws give us additional rights, too. The Bill of Rights applies to young people as well as adults. And what I'm going to do right here is tell you about EQUAL TREATMENT. DO ALL KIDS HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN EQUAL EDUCATION? Yes! All kids living in the United States have the right to a free public education. And the Constitution requires that all kids be given equal educational opportunity no matter what their race, ethnic background, religion, or sex, or whether they are rich or poor, citizen or non-citizen. Even if you are in this country illegally, you have the right to go to public school. The ACLU is fighting hard to make sure this right isn't taken away. In addition to this constitutional guarantee of an equal education, many federal, state and local laws also protect students against discrimination in education based on sexual orientation or disability, including pregnancy and HIV status. In fact, even though some kids may complain about having to go to school, the right to an equal educational opportunity is one of the most valuable rights you have. The Supreme Court said this in the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case when it struck down race segregation in the public schools. If you believe you or someone you know is being discriminated against in school, speak up! Talk to a teacher, the principal, the head of a community organization or a lawyer so they can investigate the situation and help you take legal action if necessary. ARE TRACKING SYSTEMS LEGAL? Yes, as long as they really do separate students on the basis of learning ability and as long as they give students the same basic education. Many studies show, however, that the standards and tests school officials use in deciding on track placements are often based on racial and class prejudices and stereotypes instead of on real ability and learning potential. That means it's often the white, middle-class kids who end up in the college prep classes, while poor and non-white students, and kids whose first language isn't English, end up on "slow" tracks and in vocational-training classes. And often, the lower the track you're on, the less you're expected to learn - and the less you're taught. Even if you have low grades or nobody in your family ever went to college, if you want to go to college, you should demand the type of education you need to realize your dreams. And your guidance counselor should help you get it! Your local ACLU can tell you the details of how to go about challenging your track placement. CAN STUDENTS BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY IN PUBLIC SCHOOL BASED ON THEIR SEX? Almost never. Public schools may not have academic courses that are just for boys - like shop - or just for girls - like home economics. Both the Constitution and federal law require that boys and girls also be provided with equal athletic opportunities. Many courts have held, however, that separate teams for boys and girls are allowed as long as the school provides students of both sexes the chance to participate in the particular sport. Some courts have also held that boys and girls may always be separated in contact sports. The law is different in different states; you can call your local ACLU affiliate for information. CAN GIRLS BE KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL IF THEY GET PREGNANT? No. Federal law prohibits schools from discriminating against pregnant students or students who are married or have children. So, if you are pregnant, school officials can't keep you from attending classes, graduation ceremonies, extracurricular activities or any other school activity except maybe a strenuous sport. Some schools have special classes for pregnant girls, but they cannot make you attend these if you would prefer to be in your regular classes. CAN SCHOOLS DISCRIMINATE AGAINST GAY STUDENTS? School officials shouldn't be able to violate your rights just because they don't like your sexual orientation. However, even though a few states and cities have passed laws against sexual orientation discrimination, public high schools have been slow to establish their own anti-bias codes - and they're slow to respond to incidents of harassment and discrimination. So while in theory, you can take a same-sex date to the prom, join or help form a gay group at school or write an article about lesbian/gay issues for the school paper, in practice gay students often have to fight hard to have their rights respected. WHAT ABOUT STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES? Although students with disabilities may not be capable of having exactly the same educational experiences as other students, federal law requires that they be provided with an education that is appropriate for them. What is an appropriate education must be worked out individually for each student. For example, a deaf student might be entitled to be provided with a sign language interpreter. In addition to requiring that schools identify students with disabilities so that they can receive the special education they need in order to learn, federal law also provides procedures to make sure that students are not placed in special education classes when they are not disabled. If you believe you're not receiving an appropriate education, either because you are not in special classes when you need to be, or because you are in special classes when you don't need to be, call the ACLU! And thanks to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), students who are HIV positive have the same rights as every other student. People with HIV are protected against discrimination, not only in school but in many other public places such as stores, museums and hotels. People with HIV aren't a threat to anyone else's health, because the AIDS virus can't be spread through casual contact. That's just a medical fact. Your local ACLU can provide information on how to fight discrimination against people with HIV. CAN I GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOL IF I DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH? Yes. It is the job of the public schools to teach you to speak English and to provide you with a good education in other subjects while you are learning. Students who do not speak English have the right to require the school district to provide them with bilingual education or English language instruction or both. "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance." --Title IX, Education Amendments of 1972 We spend a big part of our life in school, and our voices count. Join the student government! Attend school meetings! Petition your school administration! Talk about your rights with your friends! Let's make a difference! Produced by the ACLU Department of Public Education. 125 Broad Street, NY NY 10004. For more copies of this or any other Sybil Liberty paper, or to order the ACLU handbook The Rights of Students or other student-related publications, call 800-775-ACLU or visit us on the internet at https://www.aclu.org.

At this point, it is clear all you want is an argument and are being a strawman.

**Mediumrarechicken** · 02-10-2018, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by parkerbink

Wow, I am really shocked at the total lack of empathy/understanding of what it means to be a member of any country let alone America.

I'm not taking the time to unpack all the anger I just read but will say to chicken, that man YOU HIT (I get you say he jumped in front of you trying to kill himself but that is your side and as Trump says, Porter says he is innocent so you have to listen to him) In most places if you hit a pedestrian you are responsible.

You say education is not a right? It is the law, kids MUST go to school. I grew up in Manhattan and went to private school although NYC has a large public system.

To Z31, dude really? You don't have to pay for someone's 22 kids, you can move to another country or buy an island and set any rules you like, but as long as you are here, the laws of the U.S. are your problem due to YOUR CHOICE.

Nice assumption bub. Obviously it wasn't my fault or else I would have been charged with something right? Well I wasn't because I had a dash cam that showed him walking the same way I was going then looking over his shoulder and then bolting out in front of me, he also had a suicide note wrapping his ID. So why don't you stop being such an ignoramus

**parkerbink** · 02-10-2018, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by Mediumrarechicken

Nice assumption bub. Obviously it wasn't my fault or else I would have been charged with something right? Well I wasn't because I had a dash cam that showed him walking the same way I was going then looking over his shoulder and then bolting out in front of me, he also had a suicide note wrapping his ID. So why don't you stop being such an ignoramus

Nothing on the interwebs is false so okidoke.

You calling me an ignoramus is a badge of honor I'll wear with pride.

**lambo** · 02-10-2018, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by z31maniac

Education is not a right.

Let me guess, you have kid(s)? See that's the problem, people like socialism when it benefits them, but not when it's something they don't like.

No I don't have kids. And I completely agree with the idea that people should not have kids until they are able to support them. However, I do not agree with the notion of the son living with the father's sins. If people have kids and are not able to support them, I don't believe they should be condemned to the same mistakes because their parents could not afford to educate them. I believe it is our duty to help them... for the betterment of society.

Originally posted by z31maniac

I agree that an educated population is desirable, but you aren't explaining why I should pay someone else's way.

Because you have a vested interest in the well being of the country. An educated country is a successful country. An educated country is a safe country. Why would you not want to invest in the success and safety of your country?

Originally posted by z31maniac

Arbitrary? Interesting.

Do you own a gun? Well the 2nd Amendment is old and arbitrary and the Feds will be at your door soon to confiscate them.

Seriously, if you want to debate with the adults, you can't still mentally be a child.

Just because they're arbitrary doesn't mean I don't agree with them. I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. I'm just saying that you're basing the ENTIRE concept of the very complex notion of human rights on some document a group of guys wrote back in the 1700's. That is somewhat arbitrary by definition.

**parkerbink** · 02-10-2018, 12:10 PM

https://youtu.be/Rjab8fanzHc

**mbonder** · 02-10-2018, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by z31maniac

Why should I have empathy for people who break the law?

And there it is, the cognitive dissonance that you've got is interesting. You rail against people that break the law (illegals) yet you ask why you should be forced to follow the law (fund schools through property taxes). Can't have it both ways, you either follow the law or you don't. You can't complain about certain laws being broken and then turn around and ask why you can't break other laws.

And I get it, you didn't vote to have schools funded through everyone's property taxes, but then again, none of us voted for the Bill of Rights or many other laws that were passed before our time, but yet contributing citizens follow them anyway because they understand that's how the system works. Like it or not, the laws are the laws and if you don't like them, elect people that will change them.

Beyond that, education has been shown to pay back what is put in many times over in many different positive ways for communities. I don't have children and I have no problem educating the next generation, remember, they'll be the ones that wipe our asses when we're old and gray.

**decay** · 02-10-2018, 08:47 PM

...or the ones putting an elbow through your car window if they don't have the kind of education you need to make a living.

**cale** · 02-11-2018, 12:30 PM

I think some of you are failing to pick up what z31 is trying to say. He's not once made the claim he shouldn't be paying for your kids education, he was presenting an argument to highlight hypocrisy.

Originally posted by mbonder

And there it is, the cognitive dissonance that you've got is interesting. You rail against people that break the law (illegals) yet you ask why you should be forced to follow the law (fund schools through property taxes). Can't have it both ways, you either follow the law or you don't. You can't complain about certain laws being broken and then turn around and ask why you can't break other laws..

This is a dumb argument. As a citizen you are entitled to question what your tax dollars are spent on, to ensure they're being used appropriately and being used to create results. It has nothing to do with illegal immigration and enforcing laws relating to it.

Something being law doesn't mean it's by default morally just or logically the best solution. Essentially you're making the argument that something is right or wrong based on the law governing it, you're trying to put the cart before the horse.

**mbonder** · 02-12-2018, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by cale

As a citizen you are entitled to question what your tax dollars are spent on, to ensure they're being used appropriately and being used to create results.

That's my point relating to education. This debate was made before the laws mandating that property taxes be used for education. The cart wasn't put before the horse. Just because the debate happened far before any of us living in the present, doesn't mean that the arguments weren't considered and appropriate action was taken.

Now if you are arguing that times have changed and education no longer creates a stronger society and therefore property taxes shouldn't be used to support education, then you'd have a right to argue against such spending. But I haven't seen a single study or any research that supports the idea that education is a negative for society.

Trump Thread 2.0

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