Let’s talk about Antifa.

[E30 Wagen]

Other than virtue signalling, I don't understand the point of protesting against these white-supremacist neo-Nazis. They're just a declining population of bitter, lonely rednecks. So let them get their stupid rally over with so they can return to their sheds without incident. Showing up to one of their rallies in riot gear is giving them exactly what they want - a fight. While there are indeed moral and virtuous reasons to protest their radical beliefs, the main objection to antifa is that their protests accomplish absolutely nothing. Sure, a white supremacist rally might get shut down, but in the big picture that's nothing. It earns them free speech sympathizers and it gives them a clear enemy to go looking for more fights with.

[decay]

That actually saves lives and protects our freedom.

oh? you're military, or police?

[TimeMachinE30]

Other than virtue signalling, I don't understand the point of protesting against these white-supremacist neo-Nazis. They're just a declining population of bitter, lonely rednecks. So let them get their stupid rally over with so they can return to their sheds without incident. Showing up to one of their rallies in riot gear is giving them exactly what they want - a fight. While there are indeed moral and virtuous reasons to protest their radical beliefs, the main objection to antifa is that their protests accomplish absolutely nothing. Sure, a white supremacist rally might get shut down, but in the big picture that's nothing. It earns them free speech sympathizers and it gives them a clear enemy to go looking for more fights with.

If the pronouns (ie, rednecks) were changed and stereotyping (ie, return to their sheds) replaced with others, would it be OK?

[E30 Wagen]

If the pronouns (ie, rednecks) were changed and stereotyping (ie, return to their sheds) replaced with others, would it be OK?

I'm confused about what you're trying to say. How should I change the pronouns/stereotyping, and then what would be ok?

[TimeMachinE30]

I'm confused about what you're trying to say. How should I change the pronouns/stereotyping, and then what would be ok?

So it is OK in its current form?

Just wanting to know if you change the pronouns and stereotypes, if that would be just as fine... I do not see the proposition as a mind bender.

[E30 Wagen]

Sorry, your wording still has me confused.

If the pronouns (ie, rednecks) were changed and stereotyping (ie, return to their sheds) replaced with others, would it be OK?

So, if instead of "rednecks" I said "white guys" and instead of "sheds" I said "homes," then what is ok? What does "it" stand for in your sentence? Letting the white supremacists have their rally, or antifa protesting against them?

The point that I'm trying to make is that they're both misguided groups of people that just want to fight.

[decay]

The point that I'm trying to make is that they're both misguided groups of people that just want to fight.

there is a difference between looking for a fight and being willing to use violence in your own or your peers' self-defense.

[TimeMachinE30]

You are caught up on Caucasians. Say, instead of "rednecks" you put "wetbacks" and instead of "shed" you put "landscape truck".

I do agree, both sides are silly. Both sides are being played, too. Pawns in a very orchestrated setup. Research "Operation Northwoods". There is bias and purposeful actions seeking very particular outcomes.

The NYT full page ad for antifa... how much money did that cost? Who paid that bill? Did @decay send in his pledge?

Offended by my opening line? Why? Is any one more offensive than the other?

[yt]4Qc9yR8VfW0[/yt] (not sure where I went wrong here with embed)

Some classic TV I believe applicable.

Can't we all just get along and seek some common good?

[TimeMachinE30]

there is a difference between looking for a fight and being willing to use violence in your own or your peers' self-defense.

My man, a staunch supporter of the second amendnent!

[decay]

My man, a staunch supporter of the second amendnent!

yes, actually. i hate that california won't let me buy or build an AR15 equivalent to what the army issued me (without 3-round burst, i never used that anyway).

it's not impossible to do, you can get ahold of an 80% lower receiver legally. but you'd better not get caught with the end product...

[lambo]

oh? you're military, or police?

No, I help design things that directly contribute to the safety of the warfighter.

[decay]

Can't we all just get along and seek some common good?

believe it or not, i'm trying, and not without some success.

a buddy i deployed with (he was a civilian contractor) lives in north texas and is a trump supporter who strongly disliked the recent removals of statues of confederate civil-war officers. so needless to say, on the other end of the political spectrum from me, but having worked together, we respect each other and discuss things civilly.

i made a sarcastic post on facebook about how nobody told me antifa was starting a civil war this weekend, what the fuck happened to my invite? his response:

"One of the biggest games of telephone I’ve ever seen."

calm discourse by people who disagree with each other is indeed possible; it's just that america in general and r3v in particular are not very adept at it.

who paid for the NYT ad is a good question. i don't know- that's one of the harder things about decentralized movements like occupy and antifa- but it could be a legitimate effort by someone who did a gofundme and raised the resources to pay for it, or it could be a psyops effort by someone who wants to increase the polarization you're complaining about here. i suspect the latter, because the millenial college kids people are railing on tend to prefer youtube over print media. if you wanted to reach a more conservative audience and raise outrage, where would you put the ad? and no, i didn't go in on it.

[decay]

No, I help design things that directly contribute to the safety of the warfighter.

gotcha. to be clear, that was an honest question- when i re-read it myself it sounded slightly sarcastic and that's not how i meant to come across.

as a veteran, thanks for your work. when you compare the technology and equipment we have in current-era conflicts to what they had in vietnam or korea or the world wars, the difference in our offensive, defensive, and logistical postures is fucking insane, and that's clearly evident in the casualty rates.

also as a veteran, i feel that i should still stand in defense of our country's ideals, and that includes advocating equality and not tolerating bigotry, and violent racism absolutely qualifies as a violation of those ideals. that's why i'm one of the people standing in defense, so i would prefer not to be described as a "wannabe thug".

how about we discuss a vice article that was published a couple of hours ago? it's about the guy who literally wrote the antifa book.

https://news.vice.com/story/antifa-the-anti-fascist-handbook-author-explains-the-movement

ok, to start with, the optics of that first picture are... not great. what the fuck did she make that face shield out of? go buy a motorcycle helmet. but hey. i can afford real gear like sapi plates and a polycarbonate shield, so i bought them.

but, to reiterate a point i've made a couple times, this is the quote i'd like to highlight:

“when pushed, self-defense is a legitimate response to white supremacist and neo-Nazi violence.”

let's start from there?

[E30 Wagen]

there is a difference between looking for a fight and being willing to use violence in your own or your peers' self-defense.

Agreed, but are people really being attacked unprovoked? I picture a peaceful rally or protest to consist of a group standing at a reasonable distance, waving signs and chanting their message. But if you're going to stop traffic, arm yourself with weapons and riot gear, invade another's space, get in people's faces, throw things, shove and spit, etc, then of course it escalates to violence. It's like saying, "He started it by hitting me back."

[decay]

Agreed, but are people really being attacked unprovoked? I picture a peaceful rally or protest to consist of a group standing at a reasonable distance, waving signs and chanting their message. But if you're going to stop traffic, arm yourself with weapons and riot gear, invade another's space, get in people's faces, throw things, shove and spit, etc, then of course it escalates to violence. It's like saying, "He started it by hitting me back."

i'm not saying there isn't anyone on the extreme left who's out there looking for a fight. like i've said, the black bloc communes in oakland (to give a local example) are not helping political polarization right now; they're representing us very badly because as someone else stated- that's what winds up on the news and leads the public opinion.

check out the article above when you get a chance? it's the best representation of antifa that i've found so far.