Trump’s reelection

[decay]

here's the thing. Until we get back to baseline, actually operating within the law, we have no idea where we are cost wise or anything else.

yes we do. we have the receipts from the private corporations being paid to imprison these people.

https://taskandpurpose.com/separated-migrant-child-border-costs/

are you happy that shit's coming out of your paycheck?

[gwb72tii]

even as a leftist (and i'll take a moment to remind you all that that's *not* the same thing as a liberal) i recognize that abolishing ICE isn't going to happen, and given that immigration is only part of their lane, it's not necessarily a good idea, either. who is going to run the ports and manage the intake of all the shit we buy that's made, yanno, pretty much everywhere but here?

that said; it's important to point out that the "but obama" narrative from the right is not technically incorrect- he deported over 3M people during his tenure. what i'm not seeing a lot of discussion about is that what's changed under drumpf is where the net is being cast- from a focus on actual violent criminals, to anyone who entered via an extra-legal route.

it's quite obvious that the people who made this decision won't be significantly impacted by the economic effects of getting rid of undocumented laborers. if you still think "anyone without papers must go" a good idea, ok, but i hope you're aware of the cost increase that's going to involve when you go to the supermarket every week. you think your lettuce and tomatoes might get a bit more expensive if the people picking them have to have a W2 and be paid minimum wage, maybe?

oh and there's that whole thing in the constitution about due process and no cruel or unusual punishment- i definitely think unnecessarily separating detained families without a deadline for trial/processing and without responsibly tracking what kid goes with what parent- which is what we're doing- is cruel, unusual, and irresponsible.

here's the thing. Until we get back to baseline, actually operating within the law, we have no idea where we are cost wise or anything else.

Targeting people who immigrate outside the law is proper. Doubly so for violent illegal immigrants.

If you don't approve of the law, change the law. Operate within the framework and fight for your point of view.

the millennial generation is a WWII generation demographics wise. Lot's to like and hope for from this group.

[gwb72tii]

even as a leftist (and i'll take a moment to remind you all that that's *not* the same thing as a liberal) i recognize that abolishing ICE isn't going to happen, and given that immigration is only part of their lane, it's not necessarily a good idea, either. who is going to run the ports and manage the intake of all the shit we buy that's made, yanno, pretty much everywhere but here?

that said; it's important to point out that the "but obama" narrative from the right is not technically incorrect- he deported over 3M people during his tenure. what i'm not seeing a lot of discussion about is that what's changed under drumpf is where the net is being cast- from a focus on actual violent criminals, to anyone who entered via an extra-legal route.

it's quite obvious that the people who made this decision won't be significantly impacted by the economic effects of getting rid of undocumented laborers. if you still think "anyone without papers must go" a good idea, ok, but i hope you're aware of the cost increase that's going to involve when you go to the supermarket every week. you think your lettuce and tomatoes might get a bit more expensive if the people picking them have to have a W2 and be paid minimum wage, maybe?

oh and there's that whole thing in the constitution about due process and no cruel or unusual punishment- i definitely think unnecessarily separating detained families without a deadline for trial/processing and without responsibly tracking what kid goes with what parent- which is what we're doing- is cruel, unusual, and irresponsible.

here's the thing. Until we get back to baseline, actually operating within the law, we have no idea where we are cost wise or anything else.

Targeting people who immigrate outside the law is proper. Doubly so for violent illegal immigrants.

If you don't approve of the law, change the law. Operate within the framework and fight for your point of view.

the millennial generation is a WWII generation demographics wise. Lot's to like and hope for from this group.

[mrsleeve]

Im kind of annoyed the 'millennials just want handouts' meme hasn't died.

Why would it, most people my age and younger despise working even 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year. I despise the term work life balance when trying to justify this position ........
Obviously not all of the yougins are like this, and some have a great work ethic and lots of drive. You in fact may be one of them, but in this case you are the outlier not the norm.

Its basically just old people and middle aged people falling victim to the whole 'tell a poor white hes better than a black man' meme but for generations.

WTF does this have to do with the race card??? 2 WTF are you even trying to point out here other than regurgitation of what your SJW college professors told you.

Tell an old fuck he had it harder than this generation, ignoring the guaranteed SS, Medicare, 65 Retirement, Plentiful jobs not needing a degree..
I can go on.

Many of the those "old fucks" were fucking drafted and sent to shit holes around the world and shot at for at least a year. That was harder then sipping a latte and instagraming how well the froth was decorated. Many of those old fucks didnt have safety net, they made a living or they starved, or got really cold and wet. They couldn't run back to mommy's house and live there till they were in their 30s and had to have the courts run em off.

You want to blame SS on someone blame the fucking Feds..... Every president including the guy whos great deal it was a part of has used the SS funding to pay for other shit....

Why are you so salty about it......... Its part of life and one of those great social programs your type seem to be all in favor of. The money has to come from someplace

Still tons and tons and tons of really good jobs out there that dont need a degree to earn a great living..... You just have to look at them as not beneath your own standards of acceptability. Look to Mike Rowe's foundation for a little inspiration....

[decay]

Abolishing ICE and "inhumane treatment" of criminals is a big issue to them

even as a leftist (and i'll take a moment to remind you all that that's *not* the same thing as a liberal) i recognize that abolishing ICE isn't going to happen, and given that immigration is only part of their lane, it's not necessarily a good idea, either. who is going to run the ports and manage the intake of all the shit we buy that's made, yanno, pretty much everywhere but here?

that said; it's important to point out that the "but obama" narrative from the right is not technically incorrect- he deported over 3M people during his tenure. what i'm not seeing a lot of discussion about is that what's changed under drumpf is where the net is being cast- from a focus on actual violent criminals, to anyone who entered via an extra-legal route.

it's quite obvious that the people who made this decision won't be significantly impacted by the economic effects of getting rid of undocumented laborers. if you still think "anyone without papers must go" a good idea, ok, but i hope you're aware of the cost increase that's going to involve when you go to the supermarket every week. you think your lettuce and tomatoes might get a bit more expensive if the people picking them have to have a W2 and be paid minimum wage, maybe?

oh and there's that whole thing in the constitution about due process and no cruel or unusual punishment- i definitely think unnecessarily separating detained families without a deadline for trial/processing and without responsibly tracking what kid goes with what parent- which is what we're doing- is cruel, unusual, and irresponsible.

[Staszek]

As am I. All millennials are not lefties. And all millennials are certainly not lazy. The left is made of all generations... as is the right. This idea that millennials are lazy is just another distracting talking point.

Our politicians are corrupt. Both sides. Just this week a Dem from California gutted the state's new Net Neutrality bill the day before it was to be voted on. He was paid $45,000 by AT&T... and his charity was gifted another $750,000. Ajit Pai is bought and paid for, and is smug about it. No one can touch these assholes. At least a local Dem is (Uresti) is getting jail time for a ponzi scheme... among other things. Score one for the people I suppose.

Do I think the Dems are the best thing since sliced bread? Hell no. But I do think they would do less damage than is currently being done by Trump and the Rep party. Now we have a new SC nomination? Good bye Roe v Wade, gay marriage... and who the hell knows what else.

That is where i am at. I am more of a centrist, fiscally republican (until lately) and socially dem, but I mostly voted Rep because the last few didnt do much to hurt social side.

That being said I am driven more and more left, not because I am a liberal or even a Democrat but the Republicans have completely lost their mind and back bone and are just a party of whatever Trump wants to do. You have a few standouts

Unlike others on this thread though I am worried about what the House/Senate and President will look like. I feel like Dems are running on the wrong platform and not really changing the minds of people who got Trump elected last time. The gerrymandering isnt helping them either. And while they are playing the same obstructionist game good old boy Mitch played in the O years it is coming off worse in the press then when the Rep did it.

I don't think the blue wave will have it as easy as they think. Listening to Trump voters on several different outlets it doesn't matter what he says or does he is right, and half of them don't even know why. Especially that this most recent tax cut took one of our only recessionary stimulus away in a time when there is no recession.

Out of all the good and bad things we have done as a country, with both good and bad leaders, I dont know if I have ever been more concerned for our Democracy then I am right now.

And its not the policy that concerns me (while it is concerning) its the division, T whole message is us vs them and if you are not us then you are not American. That is extremely dangerous and its working more and more every day. I see life long family and friends refusing to talk to each other over this. That is not the sign of a good leader and I just hope we can recover from it.

The article is pretty spot on in what is happening, the difference with Reagan's re-engineering was it still had heart for the people, Trump's only has heart for the people who like him.

[Schnitzer318is]

Im kind of annoyed the 'millennials just want handouts' meme hasn't died.

As am I. All millennials are not lefties. And all millennials are certainly not lazy. The left is made of all generations... as is the right. This idea that millennials are lazy is just another distracting talking point.

Our politicians are corrupt. Both sides. Just this week a Dem from California gutted the state's new Net Neutrality bill the day before it was to be voted on. He was paid $45,000 by AT&T... and his charity was gifted another $750,000. Ajit Pai is bought and paid for, and is smug about it. No one can touch these assholes. At least a local Dem is (Uresti) is getting jail time for a ponzi scheme... among other things. Score one for the people I suppose.

Do I think the Dems are the best thing since sliced bread? Hell no. But I do think they would do less damage than is currently being done by Trump and the Rep party. Now we have a new SC nomination? Good bye Roe v Wade, gay marriage... and who the hell knows what else.

[Wschnitz]

Im kind of annoyed the 'millennials just want handouts' meme hasn't died.

Its basically just old people and middle aged people falling victim to the whole 'tell a poor white hes better than a black man' meme but for generations.

Tell an old fuck he had it harder than this generation, ignoring the guaranteed SS, Medicare, 65 Retirement, Plentiful jobs not needing a degree...

I can go on.

[parkerbink]

^

While I tend to agree with the assessment of "WTF HRC didnt win and Bernie did good, so lets go further left" as the new head of the blue's. is laughable to those that think like we do.

That said look at the up coming new voters, and those on the far left fringes. Abolishing ICE and "inhumane treatment" of criminals is a big issue to them, Free healthcare is a big one to them especially the youngins since health insurance is expensive and not inculded with a part time job at the local coffee shop .... College is expensive too so that should be free since my degree in art history only gets me a part time job as a barista I should not have to pay that bill either.

These new blues are running on the life is not fair so it should all be free platform it seems.

While I do not disagree with the take care of me free millennial life mantra, I find it funny you talking about their unfair whining (which they do) when Trump who was born on third, has had every advantage & gotten away with more than anyone has a right to get away with is constantly whining about how unfairly HE is treated.

[mrsleeve]

^

While I tend to agree with the assessment of "WTF HRC didnt win and Bernie did good, so lets go further left" as the new head of the blue's. is laughable to those that think like we do.

That said look at the up coming new voters, and those on the far left fringes. Abolishing ICE and "inhumane treatment" of criminals is a big issue to them, Free healthcare is a big one to them especially the youngins since health insurance is expensive and not inculded with a part time job at the local coffee shop .... College is expensive too so that should be free since my degree in art history only gets me a part time job as a barista I should not have to pay that bill either.

These new blues are running on the life is not fair so it should all be free platform it seems.

[gwb72tii]

What happened to the Blue Wave coming our way this November?

Pelosi and Waters along with the Marxist/socialist Ocasio-Cortez from New York are the face of the Democrat party. Good luck with appealing to independent swing voters. Let's hope mad Maxine keeps yappin.

and now Kennedy has announced his retirement from the Supreme Court giving apathetic Republican voters a reason to vote.

[mbonder]

I know it's very very hard for you to understand such a simple concept but.....we dont want illegals here, if you come here the right way, you're more than welcome to move here. The left has this funny way with wording to blur 2 things into 1. When they do that, they over time make the simple minded so misguided that they dont understand the difference. Now here we are today, people thinking the right doesn't want anyone coming in.


Looks like it worked didnt it?

I actually read some of that, yes we are aware that hes illegal, doing a good thing doesn't change that.

I'm going to argue that the difficulty of coming legally is what often drives people to be in the US illegally.

I just did some research and according to the American Immigration Council, it's much easier to get into the country if you already have relatives here (440,000 or so immigrants per year are accepted this way), whereas if you have no family connections and are coming with just your employment skills in tow, you have to be one of 140,000, of which only 5,000 are unskilled laborers (which I imagine are many of the illegal immigrants people rant about). There are also asylum seekers that get let in but that's not really relevant here.

So if you have no family in the US and you don't have an advanced degree or some extraordinary skill, you need to be one of the 5,000 out of nearly 600,000 immigrants that are allowed to move here legally each year, that gives you a 1 in 120 chance of getting in legally.

I'm not saying it's right to be here illegally, all I'm saying is that when presented with the numbers, you can understand why people choose to come here illegally, get paid more under the table than they would above board in their prior jobs, and probably live better lives than they would have otherwise. The difficulty of getting in but the benefits of doing so force people to make decisions that aren't law abiding. Is it right, certainly not, but at least it is understandable.


Beyond that, I'd say that it is also easy to blur racism into the idea of illegal immigration. There are plenty of people that don't like illegal immigrants from a law standpoint, however, the right's view in particular, has been tainted by people that speak out about illegal immigration because they are in fact racists. They don't want illegal immigrants not because it's against the law but because they don't want hispanics in the country at all. This is a minority population, however, to say that this viewpoint doesn't exist is to ignore a reality, which is why the two have been blurred into one. The entire border wall on the Mexican border in a way proves this. As I've mentioned before, there are more illegal immigrants from countries in the Eastern Hemisphere than there are from the Western Hemisphere (5.4m vs 5.7m).

It's also a shame that the left has allowed that blurring to happen because it limits their ability to compromise on the issue for fear of it appearing as though they, too, are racist.

[parkerbink]

This country...not the nutcase lefties

Not triggered at all.

Where do you do your standup comedy? You funny.

[Mediumrarechicken]

Who is this we?

Spoken like a triggered right wing wingnut.

When have I said I want illegal immigrants?

Also, what worked? My triggering you? er yup, chief.

This country...not the nutcase lefties

Not triggered at all.

[parkerbink]

I know it's very very hard for you to understand such a simple concept but.....we dont want illegals here, if you come here the right way, you're more than welcome to move here. The left has this funny way with wording to blur 2 things into 1. When they do that, they over time make the simple minded so misguided that they dont understand the difference. Now here we are today, people thinking the right doesn't want anyone coming in.


Looks like it worked didnt it?

Who is this we?

Spoken like a triggered right wing wingnut.

When have I said I want illegal immigrants?

Also, what worked? My triggering you? er yup, chief.