Mk60e5 ABS

[denhen89]

Thank you hoveringuy . I already posted to the Facebook page. I believe with a little help i will get it done and i believe that i will soon order the parts. Best regards, Denis.

[hoveringuy]

denhen89 You really need to go to the MK60e5 and MK60 ABS retrofit group Facebook page and re-post that question after doing some reading. Most of the information is there, and be sure to look at the "files"section at the top which has references on a lot of the part numbers.

[denhen89]

Hello Guys, my name is Denis and i am writing from Poland. I dont own a BMW E30, but a Mercedes W201 190e project car, that will be completly customized with the M113 V8 5.0 engine, M4 F82 rear subframe + the original 3.46 Ratio differential, M4 front knuckles, the M4 DCT Gearbox and M4 brakes. The engine and the transmission will be controlled with the MaxxECU Standalone engine controller. The original W201 ABS is a 3 channel system thats seems to be a standalone ABS, but i would like to upgrade it to the MK60E5 which i believe should work with the original abs rings from the M4.
Unfortunately i have never done such upgrade, so my knowledge is at 0, but i have build a couple of CNC Machines and did all the wiring and setup by myself, so i am not totally stupid, but of course i am a bit confused, because its new to me and it seems that there are a lot of things to know.

I did read a little bit here in the post and i am very thankful for all comments, but i saw that you connect it to OBD, which i will not have with the MaxxECU Standalone engine control unit.
Is there still a way to connect it and to work properly? If so, i would be very very thankful for help.

Do to the fact that i really want to get the car project finished until next summer, i would even do a small donation for help. I know already which ABS Unit i need to buy (MK60E5, 10.0961-0861.3 / 6784766 / 6784765) and i also have the MK60E5 spreedsheet where i found the part number for the DSC Sensor. I am currently not sure if i can use the original M4 F82 ABS Sensors, but what else i should buy? (Brake booster, etc.?).
I can imagine not getting positive feedback for asking that much, because i should do more on my own, but as i wrote earlier, i have never done such upgrade and i wish do get that project done until next summer, but i have so much work to do on that car that i fear i will loose too much time ordering parts and testing just to get the ABS system to work properly if i do all by my own without any help.

Hope you can help me out a bit.
Thanks in advance and best regards,
Denis

[Skafrog]

Awesome, thanks man. I found a 3d printed bracket for an MK60E5 in an NA Miata but it looks like it might work pretty well for our e30s as well. Can i just run 3/16 lines for all the brake lines, or did you run 1/4 anywhere? Thanks again for the help!

Edit: Should have read more. 1/4 to the master and 3/16 to the brakes it looks like.

[hoveringuy]

Skafrog It looks correct. You'll want to join the MK60e5 and MK60 ABS retrofit group on Facebook. In the "files" section at the top there's the Mk60E5 wiring worksheet excel file that has the pinouts. It's incredibly simple wiring, actually!

Once you have power, ground and IGN connected to your unit all it takes is the CAN wires to your OBD plug to be able to read it in INPA. With nothing else connected you can read error codes, access status, activate bleeding functions and so on. With the DSC connected you can read the acceleration data channels and so on.

[Skafrog]

So after some research, this is what I have so far for the wiring using the happy cactus MK60E5 adapter. Does this look correct to you? To bench test the unit, I just need the following pins, correct? Then I can connect the unit via a OBD2 cable to INPA?
MK60E5 Pin 15 - OBD Pin 14
MK60E5 Pin 16 - Ground
MK60E5 Pin 17 - 12v
MK60E5 Pin 29 - 12v
MK60E5 Pin 30 - OBD Pin 6
MK60E5 Pin 47 - Ground
OBD Pin 4 - Ground
OBD Pin 5 - Ground
OBD Pin 16 - 12v

[hoveringuy]

This is awesome. I have a GTS3 E30 with full aero and a 300x32 massive BBK and a bunch of other nonsense which caused me to bump up to the limitations of the stock e30 abs. I am TIRED of dragging expensive hoosiers and such around corners when the inside front tire gets light. This thread made me get an MK60E5, yaw sensor and the happy cactus conversion setup. I suspect I will be bothering a few people in the future as I get it installed this off season. What brake line sizes and flares do I need to get the factory lines connected?
Thanks
Rob

Nice! Looking forward to hearing about this working.

Yes, the stock e30 ABS is absolutely Fred Flinstone level technology. You will probably also noticed massively improved brake feel because the e30 unit is very restricted in flow, particularly with multi-piston BBK.

I ran AN3 lines to all four corners, AN4 from MC to the ABS (adapter fitting at the ABS to make it AN) You can choose between NiCop lines or stainless. I went stainless which is a perfectly workable but trickier. You can also stay with the stock double-bubble flare so you have some decisions.

[Skafrog]

This is awesome. I have a GTS3 E30 with full aero and a 300x32 massive BBK and a bunch of other nonsense which caused me to bump up to the limitations of the stock e30 abs. I am TIRED of dragging expensive hoosiers and such around corners when the inside front tire gets light. This thread made me get an MK60E5, yaw sensor and the happy cactus conversion setup. I suspect I will be bothering a few people in the future as I get it installed this off season. What brake line sizes and flares do I need to get the factory lines connected?
Thanks
Rob

[hoveringuy]

I’d even try 08 / 332 on street tires.

But I would retest on track @ 1/2 tank with the brakes and tires up to temp for more accurate data.

I’ve always wondered how much worse is cold track pad, compared to a good street pad.

Exciting progress!

The purpose for doing this goes much deeper.

The advanced ABS sensor like I have actually have the ability to transmit wheel DIRECTION in addition to just the speed. Turns-out, that because of the limitations I had in mounting the sensors all 4 of my wheels are actually rotating "backwards" as far as the ABS was concerned. INPA was just showing me "speed" all this time but a more advanced scanner showed me that they're also backwards. They're going -65 mph...

Now, my ABS has been working fine, but there was a lot of opinions that my ABS wasn't actually working to it's full potential, that possibly I wasn't getting EBV or it was working in a lower mode. So, this was to demonstrate that I can do end-to-end CAN logging, parameter correlation, graphing and analysis. (and, yes, everything is working as it should...)

My guess is that the direction is only used on some advanced features like "hill hold" and such (The ABS will automatically engage the brakes to keep you from rolling backwards on hills...)

I'll obviously do track logging next season, and I'll activate the "GTS" mode in my ABS that uses a different pressure model to reflect that I have 4-piston calipers that are more similar to the GTS than the sliding caliper base model

Also, my Garmin was registering -1.2G peaks on well-worn, warm Falken Azenis. I don't know what an e30 on 225 tires is capable of, but I think -1.5G is about the limit for any non-aero car.

[moatilliatta]

I’d even try 08 / 332 on street tires.

But I would retest on track @ 1/2 tank with the brakes and tires up to temp for more accurate data.

I’ve always wondered how much worse is cold track pad, compared to a good street pad.

Exciting progress!

[hoveringuy]

What pads are you running? I know I've asked before.

Can you get brake pressure?

PFC-08 in the rear and PFC-11 in the front. I switched from 08 to 11 in the front and the change was AMAZING!

There's another channel for generic input pressure and it's the same as brake pressure until it goes into ABS or EBV mode.

At the cursor it's 22 bar and it goes up to 35. This was on cold street tires; I can get it much higher at the track

[moatilliatta]

What pads are you running? I know I've asked before.

Can you get brake pressure?

[hoveringuy]

I finally figured-out how to log my CAN bus and analyze it in Megalog Viewer.

This is a snippet from a braking event, the 4 wheel speeds are the very top. The corresponding brake pressures in bar are the next one down, followed by lateral, long and yaw accelerations and the very bottom is the braking mode.

When the braking mode is equal to "32" or all the way up, it's in "EBV" mode which basically means it's sensing that the rear wheels are slowing faster than the front so it reduces rear brake bias. That's the first thing that happens when you see the two rear wheels slowing down more than the front.

When it goes down to value "1" it's in straight ABS mode.

Then the front-right wheel slows just a tad (red trace) and pressure is reduced in that corner for a split-second. Notice that it's "reduced", not "removed" like an older ABS.

Being able to watch all this stuff happen- on an E30- is super cool!

[hoveringuy]

I had been considering going to a PFC11 up front for more bite. How do you like them?

Just driving around the street all I can say is "they work". I'll be down at the Ridge the 18th for a proper evaluation, I didn't think the PFC-08 had enough bite up front.

[R3VM3UP]

I purchased my booster delete bracket from Lee in 2018 so it’s possible the design has changed. On mine there are two different points where the pedal linkage can attach to the lever that pushes on the masters. One provides a 6:1 pedal ratio and the other provides a 7:1 ratio. I chose 6:1 since that’s what most pedal boxes use.

Anyhow, good info here. I’ll have to get some mileage on mine and see how things develop. The largest option of the wilwood superlite actually has 1.87 and 1.75 pistons to help reduce taper. If I end up changing around caliper and master sizes again that’s probably what I’ll go for. Thanks for the tip on filing the pads for smooth fitment. My ferrodo pads seemed to fit without issues but I had been considering going to a PFC11 up front for more bite. How do you like them?