s50 e30 (non M) or e36 M3

[Adrian_Visser]

So I have run an auto-x event novice with my s50 e30 and an e36 an e46 and an e92 M3. I had maybe a few more days not he track thanthe other guys but the E46 was the only one close and he was 2.1 sec behind my fastest time. That did it for me. I know now that with more tire and or more hp(supercharger) there is no way the M3's will catch me. The only problem now is that my class SM is full of 400hp subs

So those were all M3's? Wow that's pretty impressive. What do you run for suspension along with the 5 lug?

[e30e]

Forgetting that half of r3v makes minimum wage; e36 m3 maintenance costs have plummeted, just in 3 years I've seen tons of parts prices drop drastically. The cooling system can be done with race ready stuff for less than 800. Its the rear subframe and top end engine stuff that's pricey or labor consuming.

Something a lot of people forget is SAFETY.

The e36 m3 is light years safer, crumple zones, air bags, newer crash ratings, ect.... I walked away from an 80mph head on accident with my m3; doubt I could do that in my e30.

[ed94r]

So those were all M3's? Wow that's pretty impressive. What do you run for suspension along with the 5 lug?

A through comparison needs to be offered. PAX time will help. Beating the guy in an E90 V8 M3 in your E30 hot rod *may be contrasted with the National HS Mini driver that beat you all by 3 seconds. Autocrossing has almost nothing to do with your car's mods, unless they are class targeted mods.

Not being an ass, but it's all in context.

Ed

[rThor432]

I walked away from an 80mph head on accident with my m3; doubt I could do that in my e30.

Meh, E30's are extremely safe. I've seen a ton of people walk away from accidents in E30's that would have undoubtably killed them if they were in a Japanese econobox. For example: Back in BMW training a friend was t-boned on the way to lunch by an F-150 doing 80 mph. He and the passenger walked away. It was a wild accident and the chassis did it's job-- everyone was safe.

[nrubenstein]

The E30 will be more fun. The E36 will be (marginally) more competitive.

Performance wise, the better chassis will be faster than the lighter car on most courses. (The E30 will do better in very tight autox courses, but anything that flows will hurt it.)

[JGood]

Meh, E30's are extremely safe. I've seen a ton of people walk away from accidents in E30's that would have undoubtably killed them if they were in a Japanese econobox. For example: Back in BMW training a friend was t-boned on the way to lunch by an F-150 doing 80 mph. He and the passenger walked away. It was a wild accident and the chassis did it's job-- everyone was safe.

'Extremely safe' compared to some old, cheap econobox, maybe. Extremely safe compared to an e36 (like the discussion at hand)... no. Not according to any crash test data I've seen, anyway. There's been cheap cars that fly into 100 pieces and the driver walks away, and there's been accidents where the car looks fine and the driver died. It's all circumstantial.

[rThor432]

They take a tire wall just as well as an E36, so in that regard they are plenty comparable. I won't argue about street driven cars but I'd rather wreck in an E30 than any Japanese car prior to the 2000 model year.

It's all circumstantial.

I agree and the end of your statement is a good point.

[iamsam]

So an E36 is more aerodynamic, safer, and has a more rigid chassis

and the E30 is more fun, and I presume faster in a straight line (we are comparing an S50 swapped E30 to an S50 E36 M3.)

[M42Power]

What if we add an euro m3 to the equation?

[Bimmerman325i]

Define fun. I've had more fun in my e36 M3 than I ever did in my (m20) e30. The E30 is fun to toss about, sure, but the E36 just handles and stops and goes much better and as a more cohesive package. The E36 is just telepathic in its ability to translate driver input into car movement and behavior. I want to do X, car does X.

Sure, S50 swap an e30 and it'll be faster than an E36, but the safer, more aerodynamic, better handling, far better braking E36 is still more fun to drive in my book.

The E30 is fun because the limits are so much lower that you can approach them much easier and faster (and at lower speeds), and it makes you feel like a hero. The E36 to me is fun-er.

[iamsam]

Define fun. I've had more fun in my e36 M3 than I ever did in my (m20) e30. The E30 is fun to toss about, sure, but the E36 just handles and stops and goes much better and as a more cohesive package. The E36 is just telepathic in its ability to translate driver input into car movement and behavior. I want to do X, car does X.

Sure, S50 swap an e30 and it'll be faster than an E36, but the safer, more aerodynamic, better handling, far better braking E36 is still more fun to drive in my book.

The E30 is fun because the limits are so much lower that you can approach them much easier and faster (and at lower speeds), and it makes you feel like a hero. The E36 to me is fun-er.

Allow me to quote something that you said in this very thread a year or so ago. I went ahead and bolded the pertinent parts.

I have an E36 M3 and a stock M20'd E30. I find the E30 way more fun to drive. It's getting some sort of power upgrade eventually, but even with an oil burning motor it's more fun to flog than the E36. The M3 is faster, handles better, stops better, and is a more complete package, but the E30 is just more fun for me.

My M3's also set up for basic time trials/HPDE (DA TCK suspension, euro brakes and Pagid race pads, Dunlop Z1 tires, bolt on motor mods, etc), and I use it as my DD. My E30 is pretty much worn out, with basic suspension and brake mods, and yet it's my go-to autocross/hpde car. Funny that.

Doesn't makes sense, but FWIW, that's my take.

[Bimmerman325i]

A lot can change in a year, I stand by my more recent sentiment.

Also, late march was when I got rear ended and was fed up with the e36 being on jackstands for two months straight, that colored my perceptions a bit.

[sgmira_e30]

My e30 help up just fine for in an accident that should have given me more damage than a couple bumps and scratches.

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As far as comparing the two, I wouldn't trade my e30 for the world. I sold an sti for a s52 swapped 325i. Even after being hit and totaling the one above, I took what I had to start making another (with a role bar the second time around!!). On my second I switched to 5 lug for wheel/tire selection, brakes, and coilovers. So as far as not getting enough from the older car compared to the e36 I have no issues the car does everything. But the best part is driving it everyday and never seeing anything like it on the road unless at a meet makes it even more fun.

[Bimmerman325i]

That picture is scarily unsafe.

[Durty]

That picture is scarily unsafe.

Definitely roll-bar time.
-durty