s50 e30 (non M) or e36 M3

[E30Pedia]

Which one would do better on the track/ Auto-X?

The e30 is drasticly lighter than the e36, but tire width is limited to the e30, and with that much power it lights up 225s easly. Now, from experience i know how well the e30 can handle, but i have never had the chance to really push a e36 m3(With suspension work done). Ive seen e36 drivers claim that e36 is one of the "best handeling" cars ever made... is this true??

[E30Kaiser]

My brother owns both an S50 E30 and an E36 M3, however he only tracks the E30. He has no problems on the track with the E30, but Auto-X is more violent with high revs in low gears so I don't know in that venue how it would do. He is upgrading his E30 with front M3 fenders and probably run wider fenders in the rear soon, so that is always a way to resolve the tire size issue.

[rThor432]

Either will do fine for the track or auto-x. My S52 car with the G260 put the power down fine with 225 RS2's. I've got a friend with a high hp turbo car and he runs 245's with stock fenders. I've seen 255's on DS2's under an S52 E30 as well (iirc it was Blunt's old red car). With a late model car you will run into more tire fitment issues with the lower rear arches, for sure. You can definitely set an E30 up to handle a lot of power either way.

The guys who claim that the E36 is one of the "best handling" cars ever made probably don't have a ton to compare it with. That said, they are pretty awesome in general. In my opinion an S52 M3 is easier to drive at 7/10ths than an S52 E30. But when you get closer to the limit, like 9-10/10ths driving E36's can be a little bit "scary". Not really scary, but I can't think of the best way to describe it. They will naturally understeer and then they snap transition to oversteer pretty fast. You have to be ready for it. E30's on the other hand sort of let you know what is going on long before you hit that limit, or so it seems. They are very easy to drive hard, although adding more power will always make it more exciting.

I have a '97 M3 and had an S52 in my E30 (sold the engine last month to make way for an S54) for a bit over a year. This is all my opinion based on my direct comparison between these cars as well as the many many more E36's and E30's that I have driven over the years.

[e30pq]

I owned a 95 M3. I never autocrossed it or tracked it. With that said, I thought it was a great car.

After I sold the M3 I purchased my first E30. I'll spare you the long story. I originally purchased my E30 as a cruiser. It's a convertible. Then I took that gateway drug called "autocross".

To answer the question about whether an E30 S50 could autocross, my car has a full interior, custom roll bar and most recently I ran it with the hardtop on the car. That's probably as heavy as you can get an E30. Here are the results of that event.

Go down to the "results sorted by time" section. Look for "Paul Q"

http://www.sdbmwcca.com/autocross/February-20-2010.html

This thread shows some videos from that event. My best time was the 2nd timed run.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=162780

This thread has more details about that car

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=107147

Like I said, that was my first E30. My next E30 started life as a 325i and the project was to build it as a K-prepared BMWCCA club race car. As we began that build we decided to change directions and we ended up turning it into a D-Mod car pulling the M20 in favor of a 1.9 turbo M42. We run 300hp to the rear wheels (over 300 ft lbs of torque). We run that thru the Getrag 240 trans (91 318is trans). We have run the car for a couple of years. Yes, the E30 chassis can handle the power.

Is the E36 chassis better than the E30 chassis? That's a tough one.

I can't answer that question with experience but if you look at the racing results of the E30 M3....

[E30Pedia]

Thanks for the info guys.

[JGood]

What are you trying to do with the car? Do you have a particular autox or race class in mind? That would determine which car you choose.

If you are going for "ultimate speed" and asking which chassis is better, I think it's pretty well known that the e36 is a better starting point due to the rear suspension. If you are going for the ultimate fun car, it depends on you. Some people think the e30 is more fun to toss around. Maintenance costs would be much higher on the e36 M3 then an s50 e30. That's a very important factor when selecting a track car to fit your budget.

[Mfever]

s50 e30 > e36 m3 in terms of fun.

[nando]

you can fit 245s into stock narrowbody E30 fenders. I don't know why everyone is so stuck on 225s. it's also laughable how many guys run 195s or 205s. you just have to choose an offset that isn't so "euro-poke" as all the hard parkers like to run.

[rThor432]

^^Yep.

And JGood's point about maintenance costs is on the money. Before thinking about tracking an E36 all of the cooling system needs to be refreshed-- t-stat housing needs to be aluminum, radiator needs to be replaced (all aluminum is the best) and water pump should be addressed. Those cars eat cooling system components, so factor that into the cost of the car if it hasn't already been taken care of. I remember 3 E36' breaking radiator necks at one BMW Performance Center auto-x day. BMW was pissed about all of the coolant on their track. Also look into the cost of pads and rotors-- they are very expensive compared to the E30's brake components. Tires will also be pricey in 17"+.

It's all about your budget though. Just wanted to say "Plus 1" for the good point JGood made there.

[Bimmerman325i]

I have an E36 M3 and a stock M20'd E30. I find the E30 way more fun to drive. It's getting some sort of power upgrade eventually, but even with an oil burning motor it's more fun to flog than the E36. The M3 is faster, handles better, stops better, and is a more complete package, but the E30 is just more fun for me.

My M3's also set up for basic time trials/HPDE (DA TCK suspension, euro brakes and Pagid race pads, Dunlop Z1 tires, bolt on motor mods, etc), and I use it as my DD. My E30 is pretty much worn out, with basic suspension and brake mods, and yet it's my go-to autocross/hpde car. Funny that.

Doesn't makes sense, but FWIW, that's my take.

[iamsam]

bumpity-bump. Let's get some more input. Particularly, which car (S50 E30 vs E36 M3) is better in:

1. autocross
2. track
3. maintenance/cost
4. Fun
5. DD

[ed94r]

bumpity-bump. Let's get some more input. Particularly, which car (S50 E30 vs E36 M3) is better in:

1. autocross
2. track
3. maintenance/cost
4. Fun
5. DD

Define better. If better=faster given equal drivers and competent set-up's for both, the E36 will be faster in all categories by the stopwatch. If fun equals fast, then I defined it for you.

E36 is better than the E30 at:
-Aero
-Rear geometry
-Tire/wheel Fitment
-Rigidity
-swap ability in engines/brakes between years
-available classes to be competitive

Ed

[BMW_TUNER]

So I have run an auto-x event novice with my s50 e30 and an e36 an e46 and an e92 M3. I had maybe a few more days not he track thanthe other guys but the E46 was the only one close and he was 2.1 sec behind my fastest time. That did it for me. I know now that with more tire and or more hp(supercharger) there is no way the M3's will catch me. The only problem now is that my class SM is full of 400hp subs

[gverelli]

Define better. If better=faster given equal drivers and competent set-up's for both, the E36 will be faster in all categories by the stopwatch. If fun equals fast, then I defined it for you.

E36 is better than the E30 at:
-Aero
-Rear geometry
-Tire/wheel Fitment
-Rigidity
-swap ability in engines/brakes between years
-available classes to be competitive

Ed

I would have to disagree with the theory that fast=fun.

[ed94r]

I would have to disagree with the theory that fast=fun.

"If fun equals fast, then I defined it for you"

Hence the descriptor.

Never said that slow equals less fun. I drive an E stock Miata. I know the difference.

Ed