Experienced Track Junkies - A moment please?

[Bishop]

How do you mean maximized Kish?

[ColdAccord]

m20's aren't really a very efficient motor.

to be honest i feel my euro s50b30 isn't enough power, but doing trackdays on motorcycles jades your concept of speed.

I plan to sell my s50b30 over winter and go s54, and s/c it eventually\

edit: and I really recommend big brakes. when I drive my business partner's 4 lug s50e30 it feels seriously lacking in the brakes department (even though after a trackday in the 240z I almost went through the windsheild when i got home and drove my 4 lug touring).

[kishg]

How do you mean maximized Kish?

As in, do you feel your going the fastest times possible in the car YOU can achieve? or is there more to be done with tires, suspension and the driver?

[Charlie]

I have never seen a turboed e30 outside of its natural habitat: non-running in a shitty apartment complex parking lot.

Go with the M/S50 varient. It's painless.

-Charlie

[rThor432]

I've got two good friends that did the same events in turbocharged E30's with completely different results--

One friend has a 2.7 turbocharged engine (Carr Industries, iirc) that was put together in '91 by Korman. It runs stock management plus a chip at 7-8 psi. He does 245 whp with equal torque. Feels like a fast E36 M3 as far as power delivery, very linear. He's been driving the car since '95 and tracking the car since '98 and it is still rock solid. Never had any issues.

The other friend attempted to copy the low-boost setup that the other guy had, but add a little bit of kick. His setup was great on the street, but he blew headgaskets right and left at the track. Smart guy too, not a kid. He's now got a 4.4 M62 and couldn't be happier.

Moral of the story (in my opinion)-- The turbocharged setup has serious potential to wreck a good time at the track. If you run low boost to keep it from blowing, you might as well have an S50 or S52 that can make the same power while still being dead reliable. Other than my one friend I don't know of hardly any guys who successfully complete weekends in turbocharged M20 cars. Oh yeah, and I'll also say that an S50/52 E30 with a good driver is a force to be reckoned with at the track--- very, very fast cars when driven properly.

[Bishop]

As in, do you feel your going the fastest times possible in the car YOU can achieve? or is there more to be done with tires, suspension and the driver?

Not at all. I know I can become a better driver, if I pull the fenders I can fit wider rubber (235/40/17 right now) and I know I need to learn more about tuning my coilovers. However, the car's mostly street driven right now, so I want to spruce it up down the road, add a BBK, and prosper?

I have never seen a turboed e30 outside of its natural habitat: non-running in a shitty apartment complex parking lot.

Go with the M/S50 varient. It's painless.

-Charlie

Sounds good.

I've got two good friends that did the same events in turbocharged E30's with completely different results--

One friend has a 2.7 turbocharged engine (Carr Industries, iirc) that was put together in '91 by Korman. It runs stock management plus a chip at 7-8 psi. He does 245 whp with equal torque. Feels like a fast E36 M3 as far as power delivery, very linear. He's been driving the car since '95 and tracking the car since '98 and it is still rock solid. Never had any issues.

The other friend attempted to copy the low-boost setup that the other guy had, but add a little bit of kick. His setup was great on the street, but he blew headgaskets right and left at the track. Smart guy too, not a kid. He's now got a 4.4 M62 and couldn't be happier.

Moral of the story (in my opinion)-- The turbocharged setup has serious potential to wreck a good time at the track. If you run low boost to keep it from blowing, you might as well have an S50 or S52 that can make the same power while still being dead reliable. Other than my one friend I don't know of hardly any guys who successfully complete weekends in turbocharged M20 cars. Oh yeah, and I'll also say that an S50/52 E30 with a good driver is a force to be reckoned with at the track--- very, very fast cars when driven properly.

Good example, thanks all

[87e30]

24v's are a much different driving experience than the m20. Drive one and make sure you like it. I'm sure that you'll love an s50 (I've never driven one) but I can tell you the power band of the m52 is much different than the m20. Way more power down low, and still more up top. (m20s are just as fun to wind out, in my opinion)

The down low tq is great for street driving, and it will pull hard on the track. I'm sure you'd love an s52.

[BimmerScreamer]

haven driven both s50 and 52 swap cars I have a total different look at a track car. I was going to turbo but now im certain an s50 is the way I want to go.

for the record my e46 m3 is dead even with both those cars

[e304me]

24v, then turbo later on down the line!!!

[e304me]

I have never seen a turboed e30 outside of its natural habitat: non-running in a shitty apartment complex parking lot.

Go with the M/S50 varient. It's painless.

-Charlie

OMG that is too much...

[nando]

all you guys hating on turbos have no idea what you're talking about..

no N/A S50 could ever touch a boosted motor, properly built and tuned, in any category. But keep swapping in n/a M50 NV's for another 10whp. :roll:

[nmlss2006]

Nando, I've seen the dyno graphs of most turbo kits for the M20: they look like particularly bad 1980s turbos and I'm sure the delivery feels as bad as it looks. I'll be glad to stand corrected when I see something different, but from what I've seen, the turbo M20s that are actually around may have more power, but they're useless below 4000 RPM and useless above 6000, with a power delivery that I'm sadly familiar with: great fun but the opposite of effective if you're actually trying to go fast. Since an E30 is all about momentum driving, as Kish pointed out, that kind of delivery is not your friend.

[Bishop]

I'm open to information Nando.... The only thing that frightened me about turbos being ON TRACK (didn't give one thought to the reliability, etc... When done right, I know it'd be ok...) would be possibly wrecking the car coming out of a corner, rolling into the gas and having the car get away from me because I wasn't expecting the tq. and the spinning off track. I was assuming a proper turbo kit would cost similar to a proper s50 swap (hence the comparison). I haven't looked TOO much at the dyno plots for say, the TCD S1 or S2 kit, but I came from the Subaru world, and that being my only two experiences with boost made me see that the curve isn't nearly as linear as a N/A motor (unless properly tuned I'm sure, blah blah blah...). I'm open to options still since I don't have the $$ to do any of this right now.

[Jonny Cash]

all you guys hating on turbos have no idea what you're talking about..

no N/A S50 could ever touch a boosted motor, properly built and tuned, in any category. But keep swapping in n/a M50 NV's for another 10whp. :roll:

Thats what im thinking.

I have never seen a turboed e30 outside of its natural habitat: non-running in a shitty apartment complex parking lot.

I sure as fucking shit have...



But as much damage i know a turbo car can do, "1990m3"'s track videos give much inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7f8L8C7hSY

[briansjacobs]

I love love love turbo cars on the track. nothing like it, totally awesome. however, nothing like rebuilding those fuckers! With that said, if you want endurance, something that is always going to work and be a shit load of fun on the track, go S52/S54.

I would never trade an M50/M52 for an M20 (stock for stock) as it is just not worth the effort. I have had several E36's and so far the best advice I have seen in this thread so far is to sell everything and buy an E36 M3.