What to do for brakes short of a Massive kit?

[2002maniac]

Lose the HP+ for sure. They fall off really bad when overheated. Worse than most street pads IMO.

[Bishop]

Yeah, right now I'm looking at ordering probably some PFC 06s, new rotors from tire rack (thanks JGood), rebuilding the calipers, installing the SS lines I have, and bleeding the system with new fluid.

Can anyone comment more about removing the dust plates? Cause those'll come off in a heart beat if they might combat heat without me having to run ducts or something.

[Jean]

Hmmm.... HP+ or HPS as those two are different pads.

Are you guys saying HT10s don't need laps to heat up? I've used Hawk HP+ and Carbotechs before and they worked great....but not on a e30. I don't want a pad that won't work well right off the bat....

[Bishop]

I've got roughly 10 half hours sessions under my belt in the e30. I don't consider myself fast at all, I'm still a novice and still learning, however, at my home track (lotsa elevation change, hard braking after longest straight which is also downhill) the HP+ weren't really cutting it. I was hitting the same braking points, but I could feel them slowly giving way, then on one lap I pushed a little harder and I felt the pedal get quite soft but not go to the floor, did this in a few more turns and I let off... I'd rather be focusing on my line and learning rather than worrying about my brakes giving out.

[lifeiskaos]

Can anyone comment more about removing the dust plates? Cause those'll come off in a heart beat if they might combat heat without me having to run ducts or something.

I'm interested in this too

[Jean]

I've got roughly 10 half hours sessions under my belt in the e30. I don't consider myself fast at all, I'm still a novice and still learning, however, at my home track (lotsa elevation change, hard braking after longest straight which is also downhill) the HP+ weren't really cutting it. I was hitting the same braking points, but I could feel them slowly giving way, then on one lap I pushed a little harder and I felt the pedal get quite soft but not go to the floor, did this in a few more turns and I let off... I'd rather be focusing on my line and learning rather than worrying about my brakes giving out.

This was with fresh fluid? What were the fastest speeds at the track you were hitting?

[briansjacobs]

Jean- you are killing me with that Die Antwoord link. the girl that sings "hit that perfect beat boy" has reminded me of the gayest song ever "hit that perfect beat"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrUEg-nKczE

[Bishop]

Jean, fresh fluid and about 110 going downhill.

[Massive Lee]

When I had my H23 e30 running on stock brakes and PF97 pads, I would bleed the brakes every single session to get a decent pedal feel. ;-) Mind you that the car's weight was only a stock 2400lbs (early Euro).

[carnurd]

I've actually been running TMS Cool Willy pads to no issues, One thing i did notice however is the mushy pedal and i think that is mainly due to lack of cooling on the brakes(running 225 NT01's brakes are the weak link in the situation)

[Massive Lee]

I've actually been running TMS Cool Willy pads to no issues, One thing i did notice however is the mushy pedal and i think that is mainly due to lack of cooling on the brakes(running 225 NT01's brakes are the weak link in the situation)

Mushiness may be cause by 3 factors. Play in the caliper's assembly and sliding system, not perfect match of surfaces between pads and discs, and most likely air in the hydraulic system, including the rear portion.

If the pedal feels stiff then mushy after going on track, then some heat from the pads/disc got transfered to the brake fluid through the piston. There are two ways to help the situation: air ducts directed at the center of the rotor (also helps cooling the hubs), and stainless steel pistons (but sadly they don't exist for a standard e30.

[carnurd]

Mushiness may be cause by 3 factors. Play in the caliper's assembly and sliding system, not perfect match of surfaces between pads and discs, and most likely air in the hydraulic system, including the rear portion.

If the pedal feels stiff then mushy after going on track, then some heat from the pads/disc got transfered to the brake fluid through the piston. There are two ways to help the situation: air ducts directed at the center of the rotor (also helps cooling the hubs), and stainless steel pistons (but sadly they don't exist for a standard e30.

I was going to just re-bleed with ate blue and add some brake ducting/cooling tempted to use the coolsuit fans like the time attack guys run. Would help overall cooling at all speeds which would be rockin... Im not putting on big brakes until I decide to turbocharge at which point im swapping e36 5 lugs on..

[Massive Lee]

Ate Blue brake fluid is a good product. But it is pretty old technology and basic. Blue or Gold (the same specs, different colors for flushing) will work great on cars that don't have major overeating problems. The e30 on stock brakes is known for the excess heat it packs. Therefore, I suggest using an even higher grade of fluid. But beware, it can become quickly costly. Pentosin makes some good stuff, as well as Motul with its RBF600 (dry boiling point of 593°F and a wet boiling point of 420°F) or Castrol SRF (S stands for $$$$) (dry boiling point of 590°F and a wet boiling point of 518°F) but is silicone-based and will require all new hydraulic components. Compare especially the wet boiling points of Ate's Blue (dry boiling point of 536°F and a wet boiling point of 396°F).

[carnurd]

Ate Blue brake fluid is a good product. But it is pretty old technology and basic. Blue or Gold (the same specs, different colors for flushing) will work great on cars that don't have major overeating problems. The e30 on stock brakes is known for the excess heat it packs. Therefore, I suggest using an even higher grade of fluid. But beware, it can become quickly costly. Pentosin makes some good stuff, as well as Motul with its RBF600 (dry boiling point of 593°F and a wet boiling point of 420°F) or Castrol SRF (S stands for $$$$) (dry boiling point of 590°F and a wet boiling point of 518°F) but is silicone-based and will require all new hydraulic components. Compare especially the wet boiling points of Ate's Blue (dry boiling point of 536°F and a wet boiling point of 396°F).

Thing is I don't have to use my brakes all that much(stab and back on the gas), also much less weight in front due to the m42 instead of m20, my spec e30 friends have had great success with just proper brake ducting/cooling.
So my plan is running 2-2.5"(if I can get creative and make the ducts not hit at full lock with a 3" ducting I would do that) ducting from the factory valence brake ducts, If I find that isn't sufficient for cooling will add:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=5752

[Bishop]

Interesting application, never heard of anyone doing that to essentially artificially cool their brakes.... Also, Lee thanks for that fluid information. I picked up the ATE and was pretty happy with it for a while. It survived roughly.... 10 sessions before the pedal got soft (which could be the pad? Or just the fluid?). I bled the system before each day, I just have been getting progressively faster, and after talking to a few locals, and some Spec guys on here, it "sounds" like I'm braking early and for too long...