any one ever see a fast audi?

[dreamchasin]

Is this a stock B5 S4? If it is, then yeah, not the most powerful (still quick) and they are a bit on the heavy side. However, if it is reprogrammed (300hp-350ish ft/lb) or more (K04's and fuel will put these at 500+awhp) then watch out. A 2000ish PES supercharged A4 will almost hang with a stock S4...Almost. Figure though, this car is 1000lbs heavier than an e30, however they have awesome gearing, and a lot of low end torque as the small k03 turbos spool very fast.

A friend has an S4 with twin k04's. He murdered another friends 330ci. I'm pretty sure the S4 is putting down 450 AWHP

[call me jack]

he kept talking about k04 swaps... honestly it sounded like every thing he knew about his car he had read off a forum... and i just found out that the car is an automatic...

otherwise it's a lowered s4, bone stock.

[dreeves]

The general rap on fast audis is that they're very powerful, fast in a straight line, great traction, but lack the balance and suspension to really maintain speed though the corners as well as a RWD car, all other factors equal (weight, tires, etc).

Go to enough track days and you'll see some well-driven audis really hustling around the track, no doubt. But they're usually slowing a bit more on entry to avoid serious understeer, then use their traction and motor to get on the gas early and catch up.

edit: this is also starting to change pretty fast -- the recent chassis are known to be better balanced, but I don't have personal experience with those.

(ps, if any audi fans are reading this, I've owned one and I like them -- not a hater).

[SkinnyVT]

there is something about having the engine hang 2 feet in front of the front wheels that kills the handling

[nando]

I've never seen any Audi show up for an autox more than once. There was one guy who brought his to the track on a regular basis. But mostly they are for show, or straight line "racing" on the freeway.

The weight really kills any chance at being a great autox car, and they wouldn't want to scuff their paint or get brake dust on ther $5000 wheels. ;)

HP isn't everything..

[JGood]

LOL @ this thread


I passed a Hennessey Venom 1000 Viper at a track day in my spece30. That means they handle bad.

I also ran faster then a modded C6 Z06 at an autox. They handle bad as well.



Seriously OP, it's an autox. 80% driver, 20% car.

[nando]

still. take a turbo miata vs a heavy 5000+lb audi with 500hp that it can't use. Guess which car is going to be better at autox, given the same driver skill between cars?

[JGood]

still. take a turbo miata vs a heavy 5000+lb audi with 500hp that it can't use. Guess which car is going to be better at autox, given the same driver skill between cars?

Agreed. But to answer the OP's question, between an e30 and an S4, it's going to come down to the driver, given that I doubt neither have very much experience. I think it would come down to the tire before it would the car, actually. Put one of the national champions in both cars, sure the e30 would likely be a bit faster, if they are relatively equally modded.

But saying S4's handle like shit is a bit of an exaggeration. Chip Herr (local guy who ran Speed World Challenge and a few other natonal series) came and ran FTD in his S4 at an autox a few years ago, against some very talented people.

[Wh33lhop]

A Stage 1, 2 or 2+ B5 S4 would have gobs of tq just where you need it (K03s spool early, stage 2+ have low 300 bhp and close to 400 tq), but that doesn't change the fact that they are understeery pigs. They are a bit heavy ranging from just under 3400lbs to just under 3800lbs for the later auto avants.

Of course, as has already been stated the car isn't what's important at an autox. If you're in an E30 and the better driver you wll undoubtedly toast him. Drag racing, different story. HPDE, it depends. But watching track videos I haven't seen anybody ever really dial out the understeer in these cars. They can deliver lots and lots of power very well though (stock block is good up to ~500whp, plus a nice torsen center diff). They really are great cars, as long as you can get over the curb weight and understeer for a DD.

[nando]

Agreed. But to answer the OP's question, between an e30 and an S4, it's going to come down to the driver, given that I doubt neither have very much experience. I think it would come down to the tire before it would the car, actually. Put one of the national champions in both cars, sure the e30 would likely be a bit faster, if they are relatively equally modded.

But saying S4's handle like shit is a bit of an exaggeration. Chip Herr (local guy who ran Speed World Challenge and a few other natonal series) came and ran FTD in his S4 at an autox a few years ago, against some very talented people.

agreed. I have seen talented drivers in audis - but it definitely wasn't the car that was making them fast!

[Massive Lee]

I had a student once with a V8 RS4 and I got to drive the car for a session (he asked). That thing was a monster. Much, much better than a lame e46 M3... The RS4 was so easy to drive and toss in corners. Just force a slide, entering a corner and mash the throttle throughout the exit. That car had great handling and power delivery. So predictable.

[markseven]

I had a student once with a V8 RS4 and I got to drive the car for a session (he asked). That thing was a monster. Much, much better than a lame e46 M3... The RS4 was so easy to drive and toss in corners. Just force a slide, entering a corner and mash the throttle throughout the exit. That car had great handling and power delivery. So predictable.

Crazy. To what do you attribute the handling? Excellent driver aids?

[Massive Lee]

Crazy. To what do you attribute the handling? Excellent driver aids?

Nice fat torque curve. Four wheel drive. Good suspension design. And a bit of CAD (Computer Assisted Driving)... ;-)

The car was very well balanced too. If I had some mullah, I would get a used RS4 in a snap.

[markseven]

Nice fat torque curve. Four wheel drive. Good suspension design. And a bit of CAD (Computer Assisted Driving)... ;-)

The car was very well balanced too. If I had some mullah, I would get a used RS4 in a snap.

The fat torque curve and source of said torque curve are what have always been the chink in Audi's armor, yeah (so I've read)? I guess some very aggressive suspension geometry and sticky-as-hell rubber make up for that? How were the front tires when you were done?

[gearheadE30]

For what it's worth, newer audis have different awd tuning with much more rear bias as well as, if I remember right, an active rear diff that apparently helps quite a bit with getting rid of that understeer. Obviously, the b5 won't have that, and consequently won't be nearly as well balanced.