so who tracks an s/m50 swapped car?...

[bimmerteck]

If you don't mind me asking, which pump specifically are you using? I have one from a mini and I've looked at several others including ones from Toyota (MR2) and Porsche. I had already converted everything to AN lines similar to Gustave's writeup and swapped to an aluminum reservoir but my pump ended up being the source of the leak. I'm reusing all my good stuff over to a buddies car and we plan to go elec. but I'm not sure we are going to use the Mini pump because of reported overheating issues. I need to research that a bit more before we settle on it.

I currently have a mazda 3 pump with an e46 rack but i'm trying to persuade my buddy to give me the Porsche pump that's been under his workbench for a few months now. :)

[j0oftheworld]

I would never want to have a non-PS car on the track. If you're always well under the limit of traction and don't care about the precision of your steering, then yes it's just like any other street car before PS became popular - you only really need it at low speed. But if you ever get into a high speed tank slapper, go on a bumpy track, you're going to regret it, badly. Every race car, including F1 (not talking amateur play cars), not including dragsters , has power steering. The only reason not to install it is laziness, and to delete it is stupid. The reason to keep it is everything else.

He's driving a 2500lbs car w. what? 200hp?
Any production based "race car" anywhere near these numbers will be better w/out PS. We're talking about a "momentum" realm of car, not F1, Bro! If he starts adding 10"+ wheels, 400+hp, aero, altered suspension geometry let's talk again. Seems to me like he has a 2nd car he wants to beat on, it to be cheap and simple, no?

[BigD]

cheap and simple, no?

Yup, cheap and simple, that's all it is. There is no performance-related reason to not have it (BS about weight and lost power is just that).

[j0oftheworld]

Yup, cheap and simple, that's all it is. There is no performance-related reason to not have it (BS about weight and lost power is just that).

It's been long standing common knowledge that manual steering gives you much better "feel" on the track.

I'm not trying to argue that it's anything (really) other than feel. I've built my own and raced a Spec Miata as well as almost went into SpecE30. Depowering the rack in these classes are common w. improved feel being the #1 reason. The rules are written to allow you to depower your rack w/out penalty not for a performance advantage but because you're racing a 20yr old car and power steering failures can be dangerous on track.

[JRKOUPE]

no ps?

it IS quite common to delete the PS in Spece30.

And it does save some HP...its been quantified.

I was more interested w/ an s50 swapped car w/ the added wt.

It appears to be a situation where Ill have to try it and see.....apparently there is no clear cut answer. So many folks have maintained and replaced all hoses/clamps etc....they soon leak again...just a bad design I guess.


I appreciate all the responses.

[JRKOUPE]

I'm not trying to argue that it's anything (really) other than feel. I've built my own and raced a Spec Miata as well as almost went into SpecE30. Depowering the rack in these classes are common w. improved feel being the #1 reason. The rules are written to allow you to depower your rack w/out penalty not for a performance advantage but because you're racing a 20yr old car and power steering failures can be dangerous on track.

Just curious tho...if there is a small difference on track.....why would a failure be so dangerous if the feel is about equal?..or even better?..

would it simply be the sudden change in steering dynamics?.

...excluding a leak of course..

[e30s50dan]

I think F1 cars run PS is because they run a shit load of caster. I have 9.5deg of caster and am wanting to keep the ps. The 944 doesn't have a ps and feels great on the track, but it's stickly track

[Fusion]

Isn't the PS variable anyways? I'm not familiar with the BMW racks, but my old (non BMW) car had variable PS based on a speed sensor.
My E30 has PS and I think the steering is very accurate on track and stiff just right. My brother's E46 has a stiffer, "heavier" feel to it at speed. Never tried it on track. My Merc has a softer, easier feel to it even though I have 8,5" wheels up front. One difference is that it has a steering shock absorber.

[Dominic49]

If you don't mind me asking, which pump specifically are you using? I have one from a mini and I've looked at several others including ones from Toyota (MR2) and Porsche. I had already converted everything to AN lines similar to Gustave's writeup and swapped to an aluminum reservoir but my pump ended up being the source of the leak. I'm reusing all my good stuff over to a buddies car and we plan to go elec. but I'm not sure we are going to use the Mini pump because of reported overheating issues. I need to research that a bit more before we settle on it.

the reason for the over heat is the factory setup pulls air from the lower under tray and it always cakes the fan/cooler up with dirt and kills the airflow.

[kishg]

don't over-think it. delete it and be done with it.. just drive :)

[Blip Bavarian]

don't over-think it. delete it and be done with it.. just drive :)

This.

I run a billet ps delete on a z3 rack. I have the added weight of an ls1, it feels great on the track.

[Jonny Cash]

don't over-think it. delete it and be done with it.. just drive :)

Seriously. The ps delete naysayers, you have to be really weak to think its too hard to steer in these cars.

[1990m3]

it IS quite common to delete the PS in Spece30.

And it does save some HP...its been quantified.

I was more interested w/ an s50 swapped car w/ the added wt.

It appears to be a situation where Ill have to try it and see.....apparently there is no clear cut answer. So many folks have maintained and replaced all hoses/clamps etc....they soon leak again...just a bad design I guess.


I appreciate all the responses.

I ran my s50 swap car without power steering on the track. 235/40/17 tires all 4 corners and the steering is no problem. Sure, it's a little stiff around the paddock and in parking lots but on the track I have absolutely no problems. It's been 30+ track days for that car without power steering and it's been perfect. I find oversteering is easy to correct and the ability to control the car is just fine.

I'm glad i deleted power steering, best thing I ever did to my track car. One less failure prone system to worry about on track days.

I've got some videos on youtube, watch them to see my wheel feedback, username: dswerno

[JGood]

I've driven e30's on and off the track, with and without power steering, with an m20, with a 24v, on street tires and r-comps, with an e30 rack and with an e36 rack. And many combination of the above. So I have a little experience to back up what I'm saying.

I was unable to control the car as precisely without P/S. It took too much effort and time to make the necessary corrections. If you are truly going 10/10ths, you are going to wear yourself out very quickly.

Upgrading to an e36 3.0 turn lock-to-lock rack and retaining power steering was one of the best things I've done so far. The steering gets a bit stiffer (stock is pretty loose), you gain the ability to quickly make corrections, you are doing a lot less work behind the wheel, etc...

Going with an e36 rack without power steering is just stupid. I actually wore out my steering wheel and ended up tearing the leather after probably 10k miles of daily driving, because so much effort is required to turn the wheel.

[JRKOUPE]

delete ps

................................so many diverse answers....

whats a man to do?..

Kish is right.....

do it.... drive it...