Why aren't there more turbo M20 track cars?

[lcoleman]

Curious to hear opinions...I type "turbo e30 track" into google with almost no results that are actually M20s (in fact, one of the first is an SR20, lol). Type "turbo Miata track" into Google and prepare to lose the next 24 hrs of your life.

What is the reason? Cost? Reliability? I have a turbo M20 as my DD, but I wouldn't say that it is solid enough to be tracked, and I'm wondering if that is typical, atypical, or the best case scenario, lol.

It seems like head lift is my main enemy. Have ARP studs, not interested in o-ringing, built engine, etc. M20s are too cheap to worry with building a nice one.

[theox69]

High engine temps. for long periods of time and an unreliable tune seem to be the best reasons.

I could also guess that it's not entirely easy to drive a turbo car on the track, unless it's well tuned. Accelerating out of a corner would take a light touch, especially while boosting.

[dinanm3atl]

High engine temps. for long periods of time and an unreliable tune seem to be the best reasons.

I could also guess that it's not entirely easy to drive a turbo car on the track, unless it's well tuned. Accelerating out of a corner would take a light touch, especially while boosting.

Yah. There are many very stable tunes for M5X/S5X.

And you could build a kit that builds boost quick and not have that turbo lag hit mid corner/exit. Plenty of people drive boosted cars but you don't want 450hp to hit at 3500rpm.

[lcoleman]

I'm definitely looking for opinions on reliability, not drivability. Thank you both for contributing, though.

I'd contend that a turbo Miata with a 350+whp is going to be a handful no matter how well setup it is. Consider this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/user/savington

Tracks it all the time...with a nice setup and lots of money, I'm sure, but I have NEVER seen a comparable M20 buildup. Are e30 guys just drag racers? Hard parkers? Is there a limitation on the M20 itself? Or the m/s5x motors, for that matter? I see lots of n/a track cars, but almost no turbocharged ones.

I had a guy from a very reputable machine shop tell me that the design of the engine/head basically couldn't handle cylinder pressures that high. He had built some 24v n/a race motors for a predominant local racer and said that there just wasn't enough "meat" (bore spacing vs. bore itself) between the cylinders to provide adequate sealing.

[e30s50dan]

Pita!!

[akorcovelos]

I don't believe that at all. Even a 3.2l m20 will have plenty of ability to handle boost in a track setting. I agree with what's been said about having the right setup/tune to make the car manageable in corner exits. I'm going with a supercharger for just that reason. I imagine if you were really good at left foot braking it would be fast as hell. Most turbo m20 guys seem to shoot for max power, when an optimal setup for a track car would probably be lower boost that comes in sooner.

[reelizmpro]

The Norwegians don't seem to have a problem boosting.

[atmobenzin]

Because NA>Turbo, and miatas really have no other choice if they want more than 200hp, with an e30 you always have bigger engine to shoehorn in.

[brian52555]

Check out blueapplesoda's car - he's selling a plug and play kit for the M20 in the classifieds section. I believe he tracks his car, and he makes 300+whp.

[akorcovelos]

If your driving in a points based classed racing system engine swaps are not always an option. In the group I run with an engine swap automatically bumps you to an unlimited race class.

[Lof8]

I would say the main reason is reliability. Even factory turbo cars are less reliable when pushed for extended periods. When you're paying big bucks for track time, it sucks to be sidelined with an issue. Sure this isn't always true, but it certainly is a general rule.

MHO

[nando]

I'd say the main reason are A) Class rules and B) Cost.

turbo cars cost more to build and run reliably. Yeah, some might get too hot, or not be tuned right, but that could be true of any motor, not just because it's turbo.

and then of course you have class rules. Other than an HPDE car, which it really doesn't make a lot of difference if you have a bone stock M42 or some crazy swap, most classes that an E30 is competetive in will require the engine be totally stock or nearly so.

that said, I did an HPDE on a 100f+ day. My N/A M20 had no problems running in the heat (oil temps got up to 260f, nothing to worry about). the turbo cars, however, were dropping like flies as the day got hotter - especially the highly modified ones. sure, they were way faster than me, but that doesn't help if you can't drive your car. :p

[pandaboo911]

M20 was not designed to be used for racing.
-M20 rocker arm

[dinanm3atl]

I would say the main reason is reliability. Even factory turbo cars are less reliable when pushed for extended periods. When you're paying big bucks for track time, it sucks to be sidelined with an issue. Sure this isn't always true, but it certainly is a general rule.

MHO

I would agree this would be a very big reason. Add more stuff to the equation and more stuff to fail. More stuff to fail more time sent in the paddock playing with your car, or yourself.

That is why I like my 24V E30. Basic suspension. M52. Enjoy.

[nando]

M20 was not designed to be used for racing.
-M20 rocker arm

that really has nothing to do with the discussion. obviously the M20 has been used for racing for a long time, and it has nothing at all to do with being turbo.