Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Coilovers question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    IMO one of the best reasons to do coilovers on an E30 is the amount of camber you can gain in the front. I have IE camber plates with H&R Race and Bilsteins on my car right now and I can only get 1.8* of camber in the front before the large spring hits the strut tower. It's not enough.

    That being said, GC has been in the game forever and have a lot of knowledge on setup. I think Fortune probably gets a bad rap as being newer and Asian-manufactured products. However, they are U.S. based and do their assembly, re-valving, and service in the U.S. which is nice.

    I have Fortune 500's with custom valving and custom rate Swift springs on my Subaru and I have been very happy with them for the money. Fortune will probably not have the E30-specific setup knowledge that GC brings to the table, so make sure you really know what you want if ordering from Fortune.

    GC Pros and Cons
    Pros:
    + Long standing contributor to the community
    + Lots of setup knowledge (and you can pick your spring rates)
    + Can weld and shorten your struts for you for an additional charge
    + Gorgeous camber plates

    Cons:
    - Probably off-the-shelf Koni shock valving (which is fine for the popular spring rates)
    - Somewhat expensive
    - Spring preload is used to adjust ride height (debatable whether this matters)


    Fortune Auto Pros and Cons
    Pros:
    + Custom valving and spring rate options do not cost extra
    + Shock bodies have ride height and preload separately adjustable (debatable whether this matters)
    + Inexpensive, will probably be $500-800 less than GC depending on options

    Cons:
    - You'll have to find and pay someone to weld the strut tubes to your knuckles
    - Parts are made in Asia (doesn't make them bad)
    - Dampers are not as race proven and trusted as Konis are
    - Camber plates are not as nice as GC, but they are sufficient
    Last edited by Digitalwave; 02-27-2017, 01:41 PM.

    Comment


      #17
      Raceland Coilovers

      A bit off topic but when I was searching for Bilsteins a set of raceland coilovers came up for sale for $400.... how sketchy are these? I have no intention of buying buying, just wondering what the deal is.

      https://raceland.com/bmw-coilovers/e...coilovers.html

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by e30everett View Post
        A bit off topic but when I was searching for Bilsteins a set of raceland coilovers came up for sale for $400.... how sketchy are these? I have no intention of buying buying, just wondering what the deal is.

        https://raceland.com/bmw-coilovers/e...coilovers.html

        I mean, a full suspension setup that costs less than a decent set of springs kind of speaks for itself.

        Plenty of reviews out there that say it a lot better than I can.


        This alone is enough of a red flag lol.
        SPRING RATES
        Front - 375 lbs/in
        Rear - 295 lbs/in
        Stiffer than H&R Race up front, softer than stock in the rear?
        Originally posted by priapism
        My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
        Originally posted by shameson
        Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

        Comment


          #19
          I've tried every factory spring combo out there, and settled with Turner J stock springs and TC Klein revalved Konis Sports. Best setup hands down. The H&R race springs are nowhere near high enough spring rate, the sport springs are even worse. As for Ground Control stuff, I'm less than impressed. My race camber plates are junk. I can get plenty of camber with them, but the design is poor (makes the car sit too low) and the materials are cheap. The mounting plates are flimsy and the mounting studs rub on the spring hats (eventually causing them to fail)

          I'd say find a set of Turner J stock springs and dampers and call it good. A set of Vorshlag camber plates to get your camber adjustment and call it good.

          Will
          '59 Alfa Romeo 101.02 Giulietta Sprint
          '69 Alfa Romeo 105.51 1750 GTV (R.I.P)
          '69 Datsun 2000 roadster Vintage race car
          '88 BMW M3

          Comment


            #20
            Blackbird, just curious, do you have the SpecE30 camber plates? They were the only ones designed to use with a stock diameter spring like the J-stocks. The Race plates are made to use with small diameter linear springs, which may be why they are rubbing your spring perches.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by BlackbirdM3 View Post
              I'd say find a set of Turner J stock springs and dampers and call it good. A set of Vorshlag camber plates to get your camber adjustment and call it good.

              Will
              The challenge is that Turner J stock springs are damn near impossible to find and I personally have been looking for over 2 years with zero luck. Meanwhile, I'm using H&R Race with J stock shocks. This setup works well, but it's somewhat soft at the limit. I imagine that the JS springs designed to work with the JS shocks are a better solution. I'm trying to avoid the coil over expense, because I've got a perfectly good 95% setup, but if I don't find a set of J stock springs I may not have a choice if I want to to find that 5%.

              Highjack: If anyone has a set of J stock springs I'm ready!
              1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
              1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
              1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
              2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
              2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
              2011 21' EconoTrailer

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Digitalwave View Post
                Blackbird, just curious, do you have the SpecE30 camber plates? They were the only ones designed to use with a stock diameter spring like the J-stocks. The Race plates are made to use with small diameter linear springs, which may be why they are rubbing your spring perches.
                I guess its possible. I bought them from VAC Motorsports and was very very clear that I was running normal type springs and had no interest in ever running coilovers. These are what I have, as I unwrapped them.


                As far as the J stock springs and dampers, I think the dampers might be overly stiff on the compression side with the springs. I have a set of the bilstein dampers, but went with the TC Kleins because I had them, and figured they would be a better match. Less compression damping, more rebound. Mind you they are set full hard on the rebound. I've never run the Bilsteins, they are packed away for safe keeping. I looked a long time for them as well but scored the whole setup on ebay a couple years ago. I see no reason to change a thing for my needs. I thought it was going to be way too hard, bordering on harsh, but they are far smoother than the H&R Race springs that I couldn't keep off the bump stops. They are firm, but not bone jarring. Yes they are rare, but worth every penny.

                Will
                Last edited by BlackbirdM3; 03-27-2017, 11:53 PM.
                '59 Alfa Romeo 101.02 Giulietta Sprint
                '69 Alfa Romeo 105.51 1750 GTV (R.I.P)
                '69 Datsun 2000 roadster Vintage race car
                '88 BMW M3

                Comment


                  #23
                  I mean, J-stocks are linear springs, correct? Just get a set of cheap coilover sleeves, 2.5" springs with the same rate, and run the J-stock (or whatever) dampers. That way you can run the GC race plates, get as much camber as you want instead of being limited by stock spring diameter, and have height adjustment.

                  BlackbirdM3- Those are the GC Spec e30 plates. They are built to have the lowest stack height possible and get the most amount of camber with stock diameter springs. I have seen some spring hats rub them, but not all. I had to shim mine with some spacers from McMaster-Carr for clearance. They will also adjust far enough that the spring hits the strut tower. Most of the front running Spec e30 guys have found other ways to get the camber they need.

                  These are the race plates-


                  They are pretty nice pieces for sure, I've had a few sets of them and currently run them on the MCS setup that's on my track/enduro car
                  - '88 m54 coupe

                  <3

                  Comment


                    #24
                    It does seem like a crap shoot if the SpecE30 plates are going to rub on the spring hats or not. I bought a new set of spring hats to rule out mine being bent or tweaked in any way before installing the SpecE30 plates. I'm interested to see if mine rub or not. If they do I will just add a washer or two to space them up.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Yeah, I think that's more on the tolerances on the stamped spring hats than the GC design, although they did cut it pretty close. McMaster-Carr has a great selection of precision shim washers that you can use to adjust clearance if needed.
                      - '88 m54 coupe

                      <3

                      Comment


                        #26
                        My IE camber plates came with a bunch of 2mm thick washers that fit the diameter of the shock shaft perfectly. When I set those plates up to not bind, I had a lot of binding with only 2 spacers, and it'd be completely gone with 3. Sometimes you just need that extra millimeter or two.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I end up having to replace my spring hats about every year. They tend to fail in the center, and end up totally chewed up by the camber plates. I also had to make spacers that fit on top of them to get my ride height back up to where my roll center was close to good. (I had to weld new mounting studs in since the spring hats ground the very soft original nuts down till they broke free) Its a bad design. I've run 5 sets of spring hats over the years since I installed these early in 2012, and I have yet to find spring hats that clear. I also can't use any spacers as the damper retaining nut won't engage all the threads.

                          Are they easy to adjust? Yep, both caster and camber. Do they miss the mark? Yep, chewing up the tops of spring hats is dumb, and not supporting the center of the hat is also dumb. Both are reasons I say the Vorshlag ones are a better design.

                          Will
                          '59 Alfa Romeo 101.02 Giulietta Sprint
                          '69 Alfa Romeo 105.51 1750 GTV (R.I.P)
                          '69 Datsun 2000 roadster Vintage race car
                          '88 BMW M3

                          Comment


                            #28
                            I completely understand how the Vorshlag design won't bind on the top of the spring perch since they are 11mm taller than the GC design (whether that is a feature or not is debatable), but I don't see how their design is any different when it comes to the center of the spring perch. In what way do you say the GC design doesn't support the center of the plate, and how is the Vorshlag different?

                            Full disclosure: I haven't even received my GC plates yet. I have IE plates on the car right now. I chose GC over Vorshlag only because I am trying to lower the front of my car more to get more static camber, and the GC design is the thinnest on the market.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Jb325is View Post
                              I mean, J-stocks are linear springs, correct? Just get a set of cheap coilover sleeves, 2.5" springs with the same rate, and run the J-stock (or whatever) dampers. That way you can run the GC race plates, get as much camber as you want instead of being limited by stock spring diameter, and have height adjustment.
                              T
                              Thanks for the feedback. The J stock shocks are Bilsteins, and I have heard conflicting information about whether the struts need to be cut or not for Bilsteins. Would you have any specific experience with this? I do not know anyone running Ground Control CO's with Bilsteins.

                              I figure this is relevant to the thread...
                              1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
                              1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
                              1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
                              2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
                              2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
                              2011 21' EconoTrailer

                              Comment


                                #30
                                J-stocks aren't linear springs as far as I know.

                                The struts do not need to be cut for the Bilstein J-stock dampers. They are the same length as E30 Bilstein Sport strut cartridge.

                                If you want maximum lowering ability, then you will want to cut the spring perch off so that the spring height adjuster can use the bottom half of the threaded sleeve.

                                I am running J-stock dampers with 2.5" springs, 550 front, 750 rear, with GC Race plates.

                                Originally posted by whysimon
                                WTF is hello Kitty (I'm 28 with no kids and I don't have cable)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X