Sparco harness Bar install

[jlevie]

Whether a cage, fixed back race seats, and 5-6 point harnesses is safe in a car driven on the street is a function of the car, cage design & installation, type of seat and installation, and the height of the driver. I'm 5'8" and there's no way that my head could get anywhere near part of the cage w/o the shoulder belts fastened. My cage is a Kirk Racing weld-in (the same as he built for the GRM car) and I pushed the tubing as tight to the body as possible, which puts the the tube that runs from the main hoop forward almost as far away from my head as the upper part of the door. My Sparco Evo is mounted lower than any other seat I've seen and results in about 4" of clearance between my head and the roof. So it can be done and be safe, at least for an average sized driver. And the cage would matter even less if the seat has head protection.

I don't drive the car to the track any more, partly because it gets darned uncomfortable after a couple of hours and partly because I'll drive it harder if I'm not concerned about how I'll get back home, but when I did drive it to the track I felt safer in the cage, seat , and harnesses than I do driving the tow vehicle.

[BMWLA]

street 6pt cage has a loop and front crash bars just above hip hight

[z31maniac]

So your guys advice is that if I put a 4pt in my car for driving events, I still need to keep fixed back seats and use the harness for street duty.

Or install and remove all three for each event.

[Mtriple]

I hate seeing this......That really sucks.

Must have slid into the grass sideways?

Yeah, this car was absolutely beautiful before the crash. What a shame...

The driver lost control in turn 2, overcorrected, and ended up going off on the inside of the track sideways into a drainage ditch. It's a pretty common mistake at BIR due to the speeds that are carried into 2.

[kishg]

looks like a nice fast track. the error would be over correcting, I'm assuming there is runoff on the outside?

[rwh11385]

So your guys advice is that if I put a 4pt in my car for driving events, I still need to keep fixed back seats and use the harness for street duty.

Or install and remove all three for each event.

The philosophy of a good number of club members and myself is that if you are tracking to the point you want a harness and a bar... you ought to have another car for a daily. If you are really pushing it hard enough to want a harness, that shouldn't be the car you need to get to work on Monday...

Some guys have a bar and fixed seats and harnesses on the road (kinda hard to change the radio... Alpine remote)...

But then again, there's some guys running 4 point harnesses to the base of the back seat with no bar whatsoever and R-comps... and somehow convinced their instructor it is fine. So play it as conservative as you like.

[z31maniac]

Well I do have a second car that I could use for the commute, the fact is, its just not nearly as fun as the E30. But it's about to get used next week since we are expecting inclement weather and its FWD with All Seasons vs E30 with UHPs.

And as far as HPDE's go, any time into the forseeable future I will only do "insurable" events. The local Auto-x/track guys have a found a company that is willing to do it, fairly affordably too. So I can go do a BMWCCA event and have my car fully insured down to specific amounts for wheels, suspension, seats/harnesses, etc, so if something bad happened, I would be able to build up another E30 back to the level that mine is now.

[BimmerScreamer]

has anyone seen a roll bar for a four door, I haven't. That's why i am looking at a harness bar.

[DSP74]

Well I do have a second car that I could use for the commute, the fact is, its just not nearly as fun as the E30. But it's about to get used next week since we are expecting inclement weather and its FWD with All Seasons vs E30 with UHPs.

And as far as HPDE's go, any time into the foreseeable future I will only do "insurable" events. The local Auto-x/track guys have a found a company that is willing to do it, fairly affordably too. So I can go do a BMWCCA event and have my car fully insured down to specific amounts for wheels, suspension, seats/harnesses, etc, so if something bad happened, I would be able to build up another E30 back to the level that mine is now.

You sure about the insurance issue. SCCA requires insurance and all it does is cover the clubs ass in the event of property damage. The waivers you sign covers their ass in event of personal injury. There is no coverage what so ever on your property......

Unless things changed very recently. A friend had his two time solo nat' champ Camaro wrapped around a light pole.....a 10K fix. That was with a co-driver driving too.....And he covered it-he's a cool guy too.

[rwh11385]

Well I do have a second car that I could use for the commute, the fact is, its just not nearly as fun as the E30. But it's about to get used next week since we are expecting inclement weather and its FWD with All Seasons vs E30 with UHPs.

Then if you want to take it to that level, then makes sense.

And as far as HPDE's go, any time into the forseeable future I will only do "insurable" events. The local Auto-x/track guys have a found a company that is willing to do it, fairly affordably too. So I can go do a BMWCCA event and have my car fully insured down to specific amounts for wheels, suspension, seats/harnesses, etc, so if something bad happened, I would be able to build up another E30 back to the level that mine is now.

:crazy:

If that is true, good luck... and fill Dave, Charle, and I in on it

[Charlie]

Then if you want to take it to that level, then makes sense.


:crazy:

If that is true, good luck... and fill Dave, Charle, and I in on it

I've seen similar setups around the NCC. It's not cheap, we're talking like a 1500 dollar deductible, plus something like 500 for the weekend. Makes sense for something like a 996 or E46 M3, not so much for a 1500 dollar e30.

-Charlie

[Dave]

has anyone seen a roll bar for a four door, I haven't. That's why i am looking at a harness bar.

You use the same bar. I had a Kirk - worked fine in the 4 door.

You are in Mass. Call VSR, they are just up the road from you. They have a nice e30 bar.

The 4 door e30 is the same chassis. Only difference is the size and number of doors.

[rwh11385]

I've seen similar setups around the NCC. It's not cheap, we're talking like a 1500 dollar deductible, plus something like 500 for the weekend. Makes sense for something like a 996 or E46 M3, not so much for a 1500 dollar e30.

-Charlie

Yeah... not worth it for it. A shell for an E30 can be had for much less than $2000, and you lose all the $500 you spend but don't make use of.

Oh well.

A track e30 can be replaced easily... your neck not so much

[Farbin Kaiber]

Just make sure to roll the car to get your money's worth.

[JGood]

I don't drive my track car on the street much anymore because I honestly don't feel safe without a helmet. It has a 4 pt roll bar, 6 pt. harnesses, and fixed back seat.

I feel somewhat safe on the track, but the last time I was on the track (Summit Main, 1 week after Cale Died), all I could think about was my lack of H&NR and I only went 7/10's all day. Ran 2 seconds slower in the TT then the previous year.

It's not worth risking. Get a safety package that WORKS. If you want that whole package to feel safer on the track, then do it, but get it all, install it at the same time, and install it properly.

I would much rather go with a full cage, but this winters budget won't allow it. I think a 4 pt. bar works OK for the track. You still have your cars crumple zones... and this makes the lack of a H&NR a little bit easier to swallow, since the impact can be absorbed a bit.

Also, if you go to a DE, make sure you are 100% ready to walk away from the car. If you are trying to get DE insurance on a sub $20k car, you are seriously wasting your time/money.