brakes

[Scotaku]

I was trying not to ride them, but I know what you mean. I was trying to slow down quickly rather than dragging the braking zone on, and I could shed 30-40mph off easily in the first few seconds of braking, but for that last 10mph they just went away. I'm pretty decent at threshold braking but I never came close to activating ABS - I don't think I could have even if I tried.

If you're remembering your braking is terms of seconds, you were riding the brakes. It's fine though. Like jlevie said, beginners do it... I'd say subconsciously. You're driving with street habits and haven't developed track manners yet.

But you will.

Among those, I highly recommend waving at every corner station you see. Not only will that show your thanks and appreciation for the workers keeping you safe, but you'll get a great start on setting visual markers for yourself. Good ones don't change between laps, so resist marking the orange cones your group might set up and go with repair patches on the tarmac, curb edging, a distinctive tree or tire barrier right in your line of sight when you're "there."

Another, and I don't recommend this for a while, is -not- braking. Talk this over with an instructor or your event coordinator because it is a huge challenge. The exercise is to try to make laps without stepping on the brakes. It challenges the driver to genuinely judge their entry speeds for every corner on the course. When I did it, I was freaked. But my fear kept me safe and revealed to me I was braking too much for many corners which was causing me to gas through and out a lot more than maintenance throttling. I found taller gears in several corners on my favorite course... and my brakes wore a helluva lot less. All while getting faster and more confident.

[kptaylor]

SpecE30 cars mostly run Hawk HT-10's.

[Emre]

However, I *do* have a 25mm master cylinder I could drop in.

As long as the 25mm MC will fit the iX, then I would go for it. I upgraded to a 25mm MC on my 318is and it really helped with pedal feel: got rid of some of the mushiness and shortened the travel.

Fluid - is ATE not that great, or are my brakes just getting way too hot? I know things like Motul are out there, but at nearly $40 a liter, I'm not sure if I want to go that far. But I may have no choice. Alternatives?

Agreed. ATE is some of the most heavily over-hyped fluid on the market. If you look at the specs, it's no better than Valvoline SynPower or Ford Heavy Duty, both of which you can get at Wal-Mart for maybe $4 a bottle.

Some time ago, I sat down and compiled the specs of all the major brands of fluid here:

http://www.bmwquebec.ca/index.php?op...d=19&Itemid=37

For my money, Wilwood 570 is pretty much the best deal on the market. Still, I generally use Valvoline SynPower since it's so easy to find.

I've thought about getting something just for the track (maybe Blues or HT-10s or something)

As others have said, the HPS is a pure street pad. It does well in an auto-x situation (i.e., no time to really heat up). But on the track, it just falls apart. Choose a real track pad, like the Hawk HT-10 or Carbotech XP-10. That's probably the single most important step you can take. With proper pads and some additional ducting, your stock E30 brakes will have no trouble holding up to a 20-30 minute track session.

can I swap pads back and forth without changing rotors?

If it really bothers you, just pick up a spare set of front rotors. Last time I checked, a pair of OEM E30 front rotors was something like $40.

[jlevie]

SpecE30 cars mostly run Hawk HT-10's.

Except for those that have discovered PFC-01's from bimmerworld...

I find that the PFC's take a good 50' off my braking zone and yield a better pedal feel as compared to the HT-10's.

[nando]

lots of good info here, thanks guys.

it looks like I will do:

-dedicated track pads with the set of rotors I have in a box somewhere (they're pretty new)
-valvoline fluid since it's cheap and easily available
-extra brake cooling if I can fit something in there
-25mm MC that I have lying around. if I don't like it, I'll rebuild the stock one.
-replace worn seals/rubber bits
-improve braking technique!

it's funny for how bad they performed on the track, they still feel fine on the street.

[Jean]

I also vote for switching to different pad, I've used HP+ as well and was happy with them. I was even happier with Carbotech P+ pads though, 2.5 hours of HPDE, long straight I would get to 120+ and brake to 40ish w/o any brake fade on my old car with rbf600 fluid and stock 13" rotors.

They were fun on the street though LOL

Does Ferrodo make a pad for e30 calipers ?

[Jon325i]

^^^^ I've run Carbotech XP8 pads on the front only and had consistant & confident stopping power going into T10 a T-hill....I did five 20-minute sessions on a 90+F day. The tires I was using at the time (Falken Azenis sports, 195/60s on bottlecaps) started showing their limits before the brakes did - and I'm a late braker too. Brake fluid was Motul btw.

Jon

[Emre]

it looks like I will do:

-dedicated track pads with the set of rotors I have in a box somewhere (they're pretty new)
-valvoline fluid since it's cheap and easily available
-extra brake cooling if I can fit something in there
-25mm MC that I have lying around. if I don't like it, I'll rebuild the stock one.
-replace worn seals/rubber bits
-improve braking technique!

Sounds like a good plan to me :up:

[JGood]

Does Ferrodo make a pad for e30 calipers ?

The guy we talked about with the e30 M3 with those H&R sports you wanted has Ferrodo's... Not sure which model or if they make a standard e30 pad.

[JGood]

Another, and I don't recommend this for a while, is -not- braking. Talk this over with an instructor or your event coordinator because it is a huge challenge. The exercise is to try to make laps without stepping on the brakes. It challenges the driver to genuinely judge their entry speeds for every corner on the course. When I did it, I was freaked. But my fear kept me safe and revealed to me I was braking too much for many corners which was causing me to gas through and out a lot more than maintenance throttling. I found taller gears in several corners on my favorite course... and my brakes wore a helluva lot less. All while getting faster and more confident.

I did this on my second session of my first HPDE. I overcooked every corner, LOL.

Everyone on track has to be doing the same thing, this isn't something you should just try on your own in the middle of a high speed event...

[AlarmedBread]

Have you ever rebuilt your calipers?
I've seen people with the same setup as myself boiling fluid at the track and it turned out that corrosion/moisture in the calipers was what was boiling, not the fluid.

Even with no brake ducting (stock fender liners removed) I haven't had fluid boil on HPS pads, I was able to engage ABS on 615's until pad fade started. Fluid (valvoline syn) was never the issue. I'd be pressing the pedal just as hard, it would be at the same level, but the brakes simply did not work as well towards the end of the session.

[silverblades181]

If you're ready to invest, Massive brakes are the way to go. I installed them recently and did my first track day with them. I could not bleed the rear calipers because the previous owner broke both bleeders and I found out 24 hours before the event. Even then, with very hard braking, I kept the same pedal feel from morning to night. I had to push my braking zones a lot later since I was used to OEM brakes and I was braking way too early. A friend of mine noted that in the front straight I was braking much later then anyone in my group and I seemed to still overbrake. No fade at all. I'm using ATE superblue, but then again only in the front since I could not bleed the rear. I'm running OEM disks and Hawk HT-10 in the rear.

My 2 cents.

Btw, Lee was at the same event, using the same Massives on his E30 M3 and he ran a good 8-9 sessions (he's an instructor) with no fade and a strong pedal all day long.

[Bimmerman325i]

Does Ferrodo make a pad for e30 calipers ?

Yes, they make the DS2500 pad in a standard e30 fitment for both front and rear. Call up raceshopper.com. I have the DS2500s on my subaru and love them. I do not know about the DS3000 and other racing pads however.

[nando]

Have you ever rebuilt your calipers?
I've seen people with the same setup as myself boiling fluid at the track and it turned out that corrosion/moisture in the calipers was what was boiling, not the fluid.

Even with no brake ducting (stock fender liners removed) I haven't had fluid boil on HPS pads, I was able to engage ABS on 615's until pad fade started. Fluid (valvoline syn) was never the issue. I'd be pressing the pedal just as hard, it would be at the same level, but the brakes simply did not work as well towards the end of the session.

the calipers have all been replaced at least once since i've owned the car, they're girling as well so no rubber guide bushings to deal with.

not really interested in a bbk - there's a lot of other things I'd rather do, and I think there's lots of potential left in my stock braking system. I don't really want or need to spend money on much larger wheels/tires yet either. if I really wanted to upgrade to bigger brakes, I'd probably jut go 5 lug anyway. :)

[cheades]

Just do good pads and make sure your ducts are in Chris. I have been using HT-10's and fade is never an issue.