Anyone regularly track car with engine swap?

[bmwpower]

Classified for what?

Auto-x?
Club Racing?
Time Trials?

Yea, I guess all of those. My car will be a track only car, but I wasn't sure if I should rebuild the M20 or replace it with an M50/S50. If dropping an S50 in the car puts it into a class that is not competitive, than it might be better to stick with a stock or hp M20. But then again, I'm not trying to become the world's greatest track driver, just don't want to grossly limit myself.

I just am up in the air which way to go.

[Bill 84 318i]

If you're just starting out, classing should be the least of your concerns. Get a reliable (read: not swapped) car and motherfucking learn. The car is not the limit; you are.

Jesus.

Miata or Honda.

[JGood]

Yea, I guess all of those. My car will be a track only car, but I wasn't sure if I should rebuild the M20 or replace it with an M50/S50. If dropping an S50 in the car puts it into a class that is not competitive, than it might be better to stick with a stock or hp M20. But then again, I'm not trying to become the world's greatest track driver, just don't want to grossly limit myself.

I just am up in the air which way to go.

Please don't s50 swap an e30 then go to the track for the first time. And please don't think it's a "competition" if it's an HPDE.

That's the reason I refuse to be an instructor.

[Massive Lee]

... If dropping an S50 in the car puts it into a class that is not competitive...

Only you would know. Check the rules of the competitive body you want to run with. As for HPDE's, especially if you start, you could do just as well with a 10hp sewing machine motor under the hood. Actually, you could do even better as you will learn mo-men-tum...

Hopefully you won't expect to track the car in your avatar. Convertibles are outlawed by most clubs, unless they run a full cage. And they already are non-competitive right from the start. Too flexy and too heavy.

[bmwpower]

If you're just starting out, classing should be the least of your concerns. Get a reliable (read: not swapped) car and motherfucking learn. The car is not the limit; you are.

Jesus.

Miata or Honda.

No thanks on the Miata or Honda.

Please don't s50 swap an e30 then go to the track for the first time. And please don't think it's a "competition" if it's an HPDE.

That's the reason I refuse to be an instructor.

By limit myself, I mean screw myself if I decide to "race" later down the road with the same car. I know there is a lot to learn, just trying to not spend money in the wrong place.

Only you would know. Check the rules of the competitive body you want to run with. As for HPDE's, especially if you start, you could do just as well with a 10hp sewing machine motor under the hood. Actually, you could do even better as you will learn mo-men-tum...

Hopefully you won't expect to track the car in your avatar. Convertibles are outlawed by most clubs, unless they run a full cage. And they already are non-competitive right from the start. Too flexy and too heavy.

No, I'm not tracking the car in my avatar - it's gone. I bought a coupe for just this purpose but the engine is tired.

[JGood]

By limit myself, I mean screw myself if I decide to "race" later down the road with the same car. I know there is a lot to learn, just trying to not spend money in the wrong place.

No, I'm not tracking the car in my avatar - it's gone. I bought a coupe for just this purpose but the engine is tired.

Have you ever been on a track? If not, get the car up to excellent condition mechanically. Get out on track and see what it's all about. It's not what most people think. Make sure you want to build a car for track use. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, but you may quickly decide to put money in other places. I have over twice as much money into safety equipment as I do into performance mods.

If you decide you like being on track, then you want to try a competitive event (like Time Trials). You'll need a lot of HPDE experience and probably some sort of race license depending on the organization.. Again, much different then what you expect, and it's not for everybody. If you do want to compete, THEN you modify the car based on the class you want to enter. NOT modify the car then find a class it will fit. You will get screwed if you try to do that.

[bmwpower]

Have you ever been on a track? If not, get the car up to excellent condition mechanically. Get out on track and see what it's all about. It's not what most people think. Make sure you want to build a car for track use. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, but you may quickly decide to put money in other places. I have over twice as much money into safety equipment as I do into performance mods.

If you decide you like being on track, then you want to try a competitive event (like Time Trials). You'll need a lot of HPDE experience and probably some sort of race license depending on the organization.. Again, much different then what you expect, and it's not for everybody. If you do want to compete, THEN you modify the car based on the class you want to enter. NOT modify the car then find a class it will fit. You will get screwed if you try to do that.

Yea, I've been on a track before, but not in one of these cars in this type of event.

That sounds like a plan. I guess I will just rebuild the M20 or find one I can drop in. Kinda prefer to rebuild so I know what I'm getting. We'll see...

I guess the battle is I LOVE working on these cars, upgrading them and driving them. I just need to find the balance between performance that will satisfy me while learning the ropes.

The other thing is safety like you said. I really want to put a rollcage and other safety features in it cause I think I will drive better and more relaxed if I know I'm safe. I fully agree on the safety aspect. But to get a rollcage in there, I need to start ripping out some of the interior, which may affect classification, etc. I guess I just have to keep researching things. Again, finding a balance of safety, money, time, etc.

Thanks for the help!!

[JGood]

Yea, I've been on a track before, but not in one of these cars in this type of event.

That sounds like a plan. I guess I will just rebuild the M20 or find one I can drop in. Kinda prefer to rebuild so I know what I'm getting. We'll see...

I guess the battle is I LOVE working on these cars, upgrading them and driving them. I just need to find the balance between performance that will satisfy me while learning the ropes.

The other thing is safety like you said. I really want to put a rollcage and other safety features in it cause I think I will drive better and more relaxed if I know I'm safe. I fully agree on the safety aspect. But to get a rollcage in there, I need to start ripping out some of the interior, which may affect classification, etc. I guess I just have to keep researching things. Again, finding a balance of safety, money, time, etc.

Thanks for the help!!

Good outlook overall. Do tons and tons of research before spending a penny. Most racing classes, even stock classes, allow you to modify/remove interior trim as required to fit a cage, if it is required.

Don't under-do safety. If you want a cage, you want a GOOD cage. And it needs to be built per the class rules. You will also need a fixed back seat and properly installed 5 or 6 point harnesses (again, depends on class). You will want a hans device with this setup (often required). Fire system, side nets, fire suit, helmet, etc... You are looking at $5k+ for a budget setup.

Don't underestimate your m20. Check compression. If it looks decent, do some maintenance and hit the track. I have 260k miles on mine. It dyno'd 145rwhp with a chip, and it still holds it's own. No point to rebuild an m20 if you don't know what class you are entering. You may be allowed overboring or bigger displacement. Then the original build is a waste, and you'll never be able resell it for anywhere close to your investment anyway.

[bmwpower]

Good outlook overall. Do tons and tons of research before spending a penny. Most racing classes, even stock classes, allow you to modify/remove interior trim as required to fit a cage, if it is required.

Don't under-do safety. If you want a cage, you want a GOOD cage. And it needs to be built per the class rules. You will also need a fixed back seat and properly installed 5 or 6 point harnesses (again, depends on class). You will want a hans device with this setup (often required). Fire system, side nets, fire suit, helmet, etc... You are looking at $5k+ for a budget setup.

Don't underestimate your m20. Check compression. If it looks decent, do some maintenance and hit the track. I have 260k miles on mine. It dyno'd 145rwhp with a chip, and it still holds it's own. No point to rebuild an m20 if you don't know what class you are entering. You may be allowed overboring or bigger displacement. Then the original build is a waste, and you'll never be able resell it for anywhere close to your investment anyway.

Cool, thx. But for starting out driving HDPE's I was thinking of get a cage. Then what do I do? I know HPDE's don't require cages except for convertibles (at least for BMWCCA), but do require a helmet and that's about it. I know I definitely want (1) a racing seat (my stock one is busted) (2) racing belts and (3) some sort of rollcage. If I can't get a cage put in it yet because I don't know where I'll end up, not totally sure what to do. I'm not wanting a cage because it looks cool, I really want it for the protection it provides.

For the engine, I could swap my old M20 (87) in it. It has less miles, burns some oil, but I know the history and it would probably be fine for HPDE. The engine that is in the car now (89) is making some bottom end noise that I've yet to diagnose. But I'm expecting the worse since it has 329k+ miles on it already.

And for the maintenance stuff...it needs a lot I'm sure (still haven't given the car a once over yet, just bought it), so instead of replacing a part with a stock part (shocks, shock mounts, etc.), I wanted to replace the parts with a performance version (sport shocks, poly mounts, etc). If I do need stock stuff in there some day in the future to hit a certain class spec, I could sell the performance parts off the car and they will probably sell for more than a similar stock part used. I'm not talking about "full" racing stuff like solid mounts, but somewhere in between so I can still enjoy the increased performance.

[kishg]

for hpde, esp if you plan to drive the car to the track, a cage is overkill. get your maintenance upto snuff, bolt in rollcage, seats, 5/6 pt harness, helmet/hans and your good to go. don't overthink it, just go do it. :)

ps: leave the motor alone for now. you'll be going slow..

[JGood]

I don't think you'll want a cage for HPDE. These safety parts work as a system. Without one of them (ex: hans device) you are in more danger then a stock car with crumple zone and a 3 point belt (in an HPDE environment). I hate to link to other forums, but when it comes to track safety for BMW's, bimmerforums.com track forum has discussed it all, and I'd recommend browsing around on there.

[Dave]

Is this car ever going to be daily driven - even as a back up? If so, skip the cage for now - get a bolt in roll bar like VSR, Kirk, etc.

[bmwpower]

Is this car ever going to be daily driven - even as a back up? If so, skip the cage for now - get a bolt in roll bar like VSR, Kirk, etc.

Plans are to never drive it daily - track car only. I have 2 other cars I swap as daily drivers.

Maybe a bolt in is a good compromise.

[bmwpower]

for hpde, esp if you plan to drive the car to the track, a cage is overkill. get your maintenance upto snuff, bolt in rollcage, seats, 5/6 pt harness, helmet/hans and your good to go. don't overthink it, just go do it. :)

ps: leave the motor alone for now. you'll be going slow..

Can I use a hans without a cage?
Can I use a 5/6 pt harness without a cage?

Thanks....

[kishg]

Can I use a hans without a cage?
Can I use a 5/6 pt harness without a cage?

Thanks....

yes and yes with a bolt or weld in rollbar. i notice your in nj, your welcome to come see my track car if you fancy a ride to north nj.