What are my options - State Referee modified exhaust ticket

[Robert]

You can check here, enter your vin/license plate

https://www.bar.ca.gov/pubwebquery/vehicle/pubtstqry.aspx

[McGyver]

Not sure if I mentioned, but the car needs smog check and is now out of registration... the real question is whether or not I was flagged int he DMV system somehow, and truly need to have the car inspected and smogged at the state ref, or if I'm fine to do the "normal smog" and deal with the exhaust ticket completely separately. If that's the case I'd consider just hiring the lawyer to get the ref part knocked down, if not the entire ticket dismissed.

So the key here is to figure out if I can still do "normal smog" or if I've been flagged. I don't know how to do this yet unfortunately.

Is this something that AAA can tell you? Or can a friendly smog tech look it up? (I could ask my smog friend in Berkeley if you don't have one to ask)

[Sh3rpak!ng]

They will check everything, including engine ID, VIN's, Evap, etc. Yes, you will also need the correct intake manifold depending on how picky the ref is. I suggest doing what you can to get it compliant before the check as you can knock out 2 birds with 1 stone. If you come up short, they will let you know what needs to be addressed to get it certified. You can thank the Honda swap game for all this. Swaps created a black market for JDM and stolen engines back in the day so they started popping hoods and checking engine ID's.

I just hope there is no trouble on the engine block considering it's actually a 2.8 block that was bored out to 3.2 and I'm running all S52 internals and ECU

How do they verify if your Evap is actually working? Pre 95 cars only get visual and dyno/sniff right? Or would a post 95 vin on your motor make them require a obd2 scan?

they will scan the ECU and check readiness monitors/codes just like for any OBD2 smog check here

I'm not in CA, but I think engine swaps there have to retain the appropriate emissions of whatever equipment is installed in the car. and in the stock location to be legal there. Technically the first part is required everywhere, you know, the whole tampering with mandated emissions equipment thing.

emissions equipment has to match the engine

How does cali DMV work with smog if the vehicle is sold out of state and then brought back in? I know cali transfers back fees to the vehicle if it is sold out of state and titled back in state, regardless of who the owner was back fees still need paid.

Can you "sell" the car out of state to a family member or friend and then "sell" it back to yourself down the road? I don't have emissions where I'm at in AZ and I've had a few cars from phoenix that required smog testing- titled them in my home town in South dakota which has no smog through the whole state and then transferred them back down to AZ. AZ smog is lame regardless so it's way easier to fool than CA in the first place.

So when you bring a car into ca you need to get the car inspected at the dmv. So you won’t be able to title the car in ca at that point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes - though the DMV inspection "VIN Verification" is easy, I've actually had to do that before. They just check vin plates in various locations. You will need to do a smog check too, but I don't know hat would happen in my case specifically.

This may sound like a long shot but you might as well go with the "plead not guilty and pray that the officer doesn't show up" route. This tactic usually works 50% of the time for me. Worst case scenario is that you'll still have to State Ref/part out/sell your car and pay the ticket.

Step one: Wait till the last day of the day to set an extension online for your ticket.

Step two: Wait to the last day of your extension to set an arraignment.

Step three: Show up to your arraignment and plead not guilty. Ask for the furthest date possible.

This process can possibly take at least 6 months or even longer with the Rona in place

Step four: Pray to the E30 gods that the officer doesnt show up.

or

Either plead not guilty and fight your ticket, explain to the judge that you fixed front plate and exhaust, also how the officer cited you for a loud exhaust ticket even though you were stopped. (Possibly a good idea to do both fixed and have an officer sign off on them)

or ask the Judge if he can reduce the exhaust ticket to a correctable offense and you'll plead guilty. Explain that the car is not running or something and its difficult to State Ref the car

At this point it'll depends on the Judge and how they feel that day.

Oh, and as long as you keep that ticket with you and show it to the next officer that pulls you over, I think you should be okay to drive the car.

Not sure if I mentioned, but the car needs smog check and is now out of registration... the real question is whether or not I was flagged int he DMV system somehow, and truly need to have the car inspected and smogged at the state ref, or if I'm fine to do the "normal smog" and deal with the exhaust ticket completely separately. If that's the case I'd consider just hiring the lawyer to get the ref part knocked down, if not the entire ticket dismissed.

So the key here is to figure out if I can still do "normal smog" or if I've been flagged. I don't know how to do this yet unfortunately.

Non-correctable is exactly what it says. It is set as an easy money grab for police, to create revenue.
Again the part that is gonna bone you, is the state ref. Read so many dudes just parting their cars out to not deal with the nonsense. Make an appointment with the BAR guy at Pierce college, he's an easy guy to talk to and will guide you in the right direction.

Man I really hate this shit. I understand that in my case I'm being punitively targeted for having what appears to be an "illegally" modified car and I was an easy target on that day, at that spot, at that time, but I am sure that many other people in much less privileged situations suffer greatly

[Robert]

I’m pretty sure you can just “sell” the vehicle & the ticket will disappear. If I’m not mistaking you can only do this a few times per vin from what I recall. I’ll ask my buddy.

[Eric]

How about moving out of CA? I don't miss it one bit.

Or start a business in Montana...

[bradmer]

That sucks. Have you seen Wanganstyle's thread pasted in below? You have options, maybe register in one of the 11 counties that don't smog? Another possibiity is if you have more than one elder car to go the Historic tags route? I have seen this on an e36 so I know it can be done, do not know how involved it is though. Good luck.

[IRON-E]

Non-correctable is exactly what it says. It is set as an easy money grab for police, to create revenue.
Again the part that is gonna bone you, is the state ref. Read so many dudes just parting their cars out to not deal with the nonsense. Make an appointment with the BAR guy at Pierce college, he's an easy guy to talk to and will guide you in the right direction.

[Mike36]

This may sound like a long shot but you might as well go with the "plead not guilty and pray that the officer doesn't show up" route. This tactic usually works 50% of the time for me. Worst case scenario is that you'll still have to State Ref/part out/sell your car and pay the ticket.

Step one: Wait till the last day of the day to set an extension online for your ticket.

Step two: Wait to the last day of your extension to set an arraignment.

Step three: Show up to your arraignment and plead not guilty. Ask for the furthest date possible.

This process can possibly take at least 6 months or even longer with the Rona in place

Step four: Pray to the E30 gods that the officer doesnt show up.

or

Either plead not guilty and fight your ticket, explain to the judge that you fixed front plate and exhaust, also how the officer cited you for a loud exhaust ticket even though you were stopped. (Possibly a good idea to do both fixed and have an officer sign off on them)

or ask the Judge if he can reduce the exhaust ticket to a correctable offense and you'll plead guilty. Explain that the car is not running or something and its difficult to State Ref the car

At this point it'll depends on the Judge and how they feel that day.

Oh, and as long as you keep that ticket with you and show it to the next officer that pulls you over, I think you should be okay to drive the car.

[Rev Run D]

How does cali DMV work with smog if the vehicle is sold out of state and then brought back in? I know cali transfers back fees to the vehicle if it is sold out of state and titled back in state, regardless of who the owner was back fees still need paid. Can you "sell" the car out of state to a family member or friend and then "sell" it back to yourself down the road? I don't have emissions where I'm at in AZ and I've had a few cars from phoenix that required smog testing- titled them in my home town in South dakota which has no smog through the whole state and then transferred them back down to AZ. AZ smog is lame regardless so it's way easier to fool than CA in the first place.

So when you bring a car into ca you need to get the car inspected at the dmv. So you won’t be able to title the car in ca at that point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tyeler18]

How does cali DMV work with smog if the vehicle is sold out of state and then brought back in? I know cali transfers back fees to the vehicle if it is sold out of state and titled back in state, regardless of who the owner was back fees still need paid.

Can you "sell" the car out of state to a family member or friend and then "sell" it back to yourself down the road? I don't have emissions where I'm at in AZ and I've had a few cars from phoenix that required smog testing- titled them in my home town in South dakota which has no smog through the whole state and then transferred them back down to AZ. AZ smog is lame regardless so it's way easier to fool than CA in the first place.

[roguetoaster]

I'm not in CA, but I think engine swaps there have to retain the appropriate emissions of whatever equipment is installed in the car. and in the stock location to be legal there. Technically the first part is required everywhere, you know, the whole tampering with mandated emissions equipment thing.

[Motheye99]

How do they verify if your Evap is actually working? Pre 95 cars only get visual and dyno/sniff right? Or would a post 95 vin on your motor make them require a obd2 scan?

[reelizmpro]

They will check everything, including engine ID, VIN's, Evap, etc. Yes, you will also need the correct intake manifold depending on how picky the ref is. I suggest doing what you can to get it compliant before the check as you can knock out 2 birds with 1 stone. If you come up short, they will let you know what needs to be addressed to get it certified. You can thank the Honda swap game for all this. Swaps created a black market for JDM and stolen engines back in the day so they started popping hoods and checking engine ID's.

[Sh3rpak!ng]

That's a very risky idea.

I had a friend who bought an e12 that was swapped and BAR'd as an m30b34 swap (somehow BAR missed the piano top pistons). He went to register it and they checked the VIN on the dash, cowl, and a door. Apparently a door had been replaced at one point and didn't match. He ended up having to take it to a referee to get the VIN verified, it was a huge hassle.

Honestly OP, why not just make the car legal, get your BAR sticker, and never worry again?

Evap system, Charcoal canister, crankcase air/oil separator, Fresh ECU with EWS coded out (since mine has all readiness monitors set to green)? I still also have a CEL from the swap I never figured out :P and I'd need a new harness since I got rid of all the wires in mine that weren't needed for the emissions stuff I no longer have, and then I'd need to adapt the wiring harness again to plug into the e30 chassis, full exhaust fabbed, OE air intake.

This is still a considerable amount of work and cost, both hunting all these parts down, reversing all the existing work i've carefully done, and installing all the BAR stuff. I honestly do not have the energy or motivation to do any of it. My free time is pretty minimal. I just want to drive.

Now if there was some way to KNOW the ECU readiness monitors wouldn't give me trouble, this would make most of these items much easier. I'd just fake wire and plumb most of it.... but still a decent amount of work. idk.

Edit: would I have to put an M52 intake manifold back on?

I have never actually heard of them checking this - but at some point California required the manufacturers to publish the checksum for each calibration. So if the DME is modified at all (even if you didn't change any emissions settings), they would know by reading the checksum and comparing it to a database. I don't know what engine swap you have - but I don't think this existed on the M52/S52, but it definitely exists on the M54 and newer DMEs.

Funny thing is it's actually possible to write an algorithm that pads the calibration to give you a checksum that matches the original... we considered doing this, but again, I've never actually heard of this being checked.

it is an S52 and OBD2

Is there any way to verify your thoughts here? If so it would change the balance of the decision towards attempting to BAR it pretty significantly

[nando]

Evap system? Charcoal canister? crankcase air/oil separator? Fresh ECU with EWS coded out (since mine has all readiness monitors set to green)? I still also have a CEL from the swap I never figured out :P and I'd need a new harness since I got rid of all the wires in mine that weren't needed for the emissions stuff I no longer have, and then I'd need to adapt the wiring harness again to plug into the e30 chassis....

Would I not need to get it BAR legal first then do the referee inspection? Since technically even if it was BAR compliant, it'd still be an illegitimate swap?


The ECU with readiness monitors all set to pass is actually something I've been very curious about... would that get flagged in a smog check? Because if not I could just fake wire up all those things to pass visual

I have never actually heard of them checking this - but at some point California required the manufacturers to publish the checksum for each calibration. So if the DME is modified at all (even if you didn't change any emissions settings), they would know by reading the checksum and comparing it to a database. I don't know what engine swap you have - but I don't think this existed on the M52/S52, but it definitely exists on the M54 and newer DMEs.

Funny thing is it's actually possible to write an algorithm that pads the calibration to give you a checksum that matches the original... we considered doing this, but again, I've never actually heard of this being checked.

I just checked, M52s and S52s don't have it (it's CARB_MODE_9_CVN in the daten files, which is really just the checksum). Doesn't look like that started until MS43/MSS54.