No more MT BMWs in 2019 - and why I'll never buy anything past an EXX series

[nando]

1) MT transmissions do not kill people, cause cancer, brain damage, etc - like leaded gasoline did (AT might make you brain dead though, lol). So a pretty poor comparison. It's more like how future cars will be self-driving only, because why do anything in a car like shift gears or steer? the car does it better anyway. see my point?

2) sure, people who bought used E30s 20 years ago couldn't buy a new BMW then. But what happens over time? Every single BMW I've had since has been newer & more expensive. It's possible, even likely, that eventually I would buy a new one (I could afford one, but - meh). I make like 10x as much money as I did when I bought my E30, but since they literally do not make a single car that I would want to buy now, that possibility is gone.

So it doesn't follow that BMW shouldn't care about the 2nd hand market, because those are the people who already love BMWs and are more likely to choose that brand first if they are in the market for a new car.

[djjerme]

We bought my wife’s Audi A3 brand new, and I don’t really enjoy driving it. The bazillion speed automatic is sluggish shifting in sport mode, likes to hunt in auto mode, and the lag/throttle response is unpredictable at best.

Fun fact though, her A3 hatch is 1 inch in each direction bigger than my E30 Touring.

I’ll never buy brand new for me, because I like changing cars frequently and if you do that with brand new, you’re pissing away money. But for my wife, I’ll buy new because she’ll drive it for a decade.





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[varg]

Should leaded fuel still be a choice?

This is what you call "reduction to the absurd"

[Staszek]

This is what you call "reduction to the absurd"

I will agree with you there, I could have used a better example.

[coldweatherblue]

May have been mentioned but the 1/2 series will still be available in manual transmission.

I get what BMW is doing, and the new 8-speed paddle shifter is pretty fun. Have also driven a new A4 with their paddle shifter and felt like a fun car..

But not nearly as fun as the E30.

My daily commute is 5 miles of hairpin corners, a few chicane round-a-bounts, and hills on mostly empty 2-lane country roads followed by a short highway section. No stop lights and I usually go door-to door without any traffic.

To drive the E30 at the same speed and smoothness as my wife drives her X5 or everyone else drives their 6000lb full sized pickups requires well-matched downshifts and fun/safe turn-in/weight transfers.

After 15 years of daily driving E30s, this is still fun for me. Almost as fun as riding a motorcycle.

When it's no longer fun or I can no longer physically use a clutch I'll probably get a 4runner or something and call it a day, but until then I don't really see the point of making my life less enjoyable by driving something other than an E30.

[James Crivellone]

So it doesn't follow that BMW shouldn't care about the 2nd hand market, because those are the people who already love BMWs and are more likely to choose that brand first if they are in the market for a new car.

Do you buy NEW BMW's? That's the issue, someone has to buy them, and if we don't (which we... don't) nobody will, especially the new car buyer.

Had a cup of coffee with my friend at BMW yesterday, number one vehicle sold at his dealership? X3, overall take of manual transmission vehicles as a new car buyer? less than 1%

Yes, BMW cares about its enthusiasts, but what should they do? Build a bunch of 6 speed manual 340's which nobody will buy new, let them sit for years and sell at a discounted rate to us?

I see your point, but from a marketing/sales perspective the numbers just don't add up.

[Todd Black 88]

Nobody buys new Bmw's.

The overwhelming majority are leased by folks looking for an image presentation, whether it’s work related or personal reasons. Leased cars are overwhelmingly automatic as they are easier to resale.

Here in Vancouver, where there is a new BMW on every corner, the leased percentage is in the mid 90% range according to my buddy who is a sales manager at a local BMW dealership.

There is also the federal (Canada anyways, I assume the US has the same or similar) fleet fuel economy and emissions issue. Automatics are better, especially in the high performance high fuel consumption M cars, at fuel economy and emissions control. Technology at work.


Also, enthusiasts are smart and buy used. Who the hell wants to take the hit on a new bmw after 2 years? I bought my 2012 328xit 6 speed as a 6 month old repo. I payed 28k less than the sticker price was new. It had 12k kilometres on it. (7500 miles or so.)

[majdomo]

Do you buy NEW BMW's? That's the issue, someone has to buy them, and if we don't (which we... don't) nobody will, especially the new car buyer.

This. The cost of developing, marketing, building and delivering new cars every year is enormous, and if they don’t recover that investment the company goes under...along with the support for us broke-ass (speaking for myself!) enthusiasts.

Maybe what I get most torqued about is how BMW seems to have “walked away from what made it successful,” but what that really means is “walked away from what I found awesome about the brand and it doesn’t seem to care about that any more.” It’s a selfish, navel-gazing thing to say, really, but it’s how I feel about just about every new car in the lineup. It’s not for me. But it’s for someone. On balance, I’m really glad for that.



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[nando]

Do you buy NEW BMW's? That's the issue, someone has to buy them, and if we don't (which we... don't) nobody will, especially the new car buyer.

Had a cup of coffee with my friend at BMW yesterday, number one vehicle sold at his dealership? X3, overall take of manual transmission vehicles as a new car buyer? less than 1%

Yes, BMW cares about its enthusiasts, but what should they do? Build a bunch of 6 speed manual 340's which nobody will buy new, let them sit for years and sell at a discounted rate to us?

I see your point, but from a marketing/sales perspective the numbers just don't add up.

Who says they have to build them to sit? BMW's whole manufacturing process allows for the customization of everything. They can build pretty much anything you want (for a price). Endless color, engine, drivetrain and interior choices. But 3 pedals? Oh man, that would cost too much.. ;)

The newest touted feature of the G20? The roundels now stay horizontal instead of rotating with the wheels. Are you kidding me? This is what people are paying $60k for? We already have to endure fake engine sounds and M branded everything.

And you're sure BMW hasn't completely lost it?

[varg]

The newest touted feature of the G20? The roundels now stay horizontal instead of rotating with the wheels.

For real? Move over Rolls Royce, BMW is trying to take over your market with the new 3 series :giggle:

[nando]

BMW owns Rolls Royce :p

[lukeADE335i]

Who says they have to build them to sit? BMW's whole manufacturing process allows for the customization of everything. They can build pretty much anything you want (for a price). Endless color, engine, drivetrain and interior choices. But 3 pedals? Oh man, that would cost too much.. ;)

The irony of course is that for Europe there are 3 pedal G20s (sure - only in the diesels) - so the engineering has already been done to fit 3 pedals to whatever G20 really. If there are proposed manual 1 & 2 series, then logically there could just as easily be manual 3 series. Perhaps as an 'individual' option if uptake is too low?

Still with how big the G20 has become it's likely that the next generation 2 series coupe and GT will be the ones enthusiasts want anyway.

[tinoe30]

Here's the competition. It's called the Mission E. Saw it at Rennsport Reunion VI at Laguna Seca 1 week ago today.

Vital specs:
Range: 300 miles
Top Speed: 155 mph
0-62 mph: < 3.5 seconds

Talking with factory reps - to be priced to compete with Tesla

It looked killer....

[Staszek]

Here's the competition. It's called the Mission E. Saw it at Rennsport Reunion VI at Laguna Seca 1 week ago today.

Vital specs:
Range: 300 miles
Top Speed: 155 mph
0-62 mph: < 3.5 seconds

Talking with factory reps - to be priced to compete with Tesla

It looked killer....

It has a name now, called the Tayman, I was just invited to put a preorder deposit down of $2500. I’m considering it, but honestly would like to drive it first. It’s said to be there Tesla S killer.

[E30 Wagen]

I don't know, I have a hard time believing that if a dealership ordered a 6 speed M-sport 230i, M240i, or 340i, red with black interior, and put it in the showroom that it wouldn't get any interest. Park it next to an expensive 7 series to really set it off as a sexy, fun sports car. There's bound to be at least one compulsive spender out there looking for something flashy and fun to drive, so I don't understand why BMW or its dealerships don't even try and market to those people. Somebody with $50k burning a whole in their pocket probably doesn't want to sit down with a salesman for an hour to fill out an order form and wait 6 months. They want to see and drive the car, but if they show up to a dealer and 90% of the inventory are black, white, or silver automatic 3ers and X3s then they'll just go a Ford dealership that has like seven Mustangs to choose from.