S50 Is dead thanks to TRM.

[Dominic49]

i have no issues at high rpms with my TRM chip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGpZ2Dr5Co

[jrhaile]

I don't recall ever having any dealings with you so I don't know where your problem with me lies.

As a side note, copying a chip is illegal. We only need the serial number on the top to verify the tune. If the chip is suspect (which it shouldn't be unless there is a DME code) we can verify the integrity of the data here as well.

Mike I don't want to turn this into a war... my dealings with you come from a couple years back. Lets focus on the OP, please.

Also I suggest copying the chip for his own protection against false accusations a tuner might spew.

[jrhaile]

Out of all the hundreds of people running our chips, the only ones who are going to speak up are the un-happy ones. And the ones that don't have a TRM chip at all.

There is something (probably a lot) that you aren't telling us, BMW_TUNER.

Matt, any idiot can tell this is clearly a tuning problem. There is no other way around this. Unless he had different injectors in there or something, only one thing can cause too much fuel.

[rThor432]

MmmHMMMmmmm, this makes me a bit nervous about the TRM chip sitting my DME for my nearly completed swap.

Dont worry too much, I've been running the TRM chip for a little over a year now without any issues.

[e30s52]

I think I am going to get rid of my chip now and finnaly put my vems system in.

[techno550]

Mike I don't want to turn this into a war... my dealings with you come from a couple years back. Lets focus on the OP, please.

Also I suggest copying the chip for his own protection against false accusations a tuner might spew.

The only one spewing accusations here is the OP and yourself.

Its usually better to take a logical approach to a problem and try to understand what could have happened instead of jumping right to trying to place blame.

Matt, any idiot can tell this is clearly a tuning problem. There is no other way around this. Unless he had different injectors in there or something, only one thing can cause too much fuel.

More than one thing can cause too much fuel. Injectors, MAF, MAF clocking if you have a bend in front of it, bad FPR, inconsistent power to the fuel pump, etc.

How do we know this is a tuning problem? A motor that ran for 2 hours after rebuild is having problems? To me (and to any engine builder) that is most likely an assembly problem. I've seen plenty of motors that were doomed before the first cylinder ever saw fuel or spark.
For decades people have slapped together motors, thrown on a carb, turned the knobs only enough to get it to start and move, and guessed with the distributor. Most of those last years running poorly.... Unless they also missed the mark on the assembly. Tolerances are critical. Where were the OP's? What were the main and rod bearing clearances? how were they checked?

Wrong injectors can cause a problem. Wrong MAF or bad MAF or improperly installed MAF can cause a problem. The clocking of the MAF and the shape of the pipe before the MAF matter. You can make things bad moving the MAF around causing bad readings.


What I have seen so far is that we have a motor that the OP assembled, had "starting issues" from wiring issues and fuel lines being hooked up incorrectly, threw MAF and injector codes, had ONE injector swapped, and the MAF "cleaned", and has rod knock in 200 miles.

If one isn't attentive enough to plug in fuel lines and wires what are the chances of getting all of the tolerances and torques done properly when assembling the motor.

On the fuel in the oil front, an injector was swapped? was the oil changed then too? was the first bad injector stuck open? how much fuel was dumped when the injector was being swapped?

[318isbmw]

The only one spewing accusations here is the OP and yourself.

Its usually better to take a logical approach to a problem and try to understand what could have happened instead of jumping right to trying to place blame.


More than one thing can cause too much fuel. Injectors, MAF, MAF clocking if you have a bend in front of it, bad FPR, inconsistent power to the fuel pump, etc.

How do we know this is a tuning problem? A motor that ran for 2 hours after rebuild is having problems? To me (and to any engine builder) that is most likely an assembly problem. I've seen plenty of motors that were doomed before the first cylinder ever saw fuel or spark.
For decades people have slapped together motors, thrown on a carb, turned the knobs only enough to get it to start and move, and guessed with the distributor. Most of those last years running poorly.... Unless they also missed the mark on the assembly. Tolerances are critical. Where were the OP's? What were the main and rod bearing clearances? how were they checked?

Wrong injectors can cause a problem. Wrong MAF or bad MAF or improperly installed MAF can cause a problem. The clocking of the MAF and the shape of the pipe before the MAF matter. You can make things bad moving the MAF around causing bad readings.


What I have seen so far is that we have a motor that the OP assembled, had "starting issues" from wiring issues and fuel lines being hooked up incorrectly, threw MAF and injector codes, had ONE injector swapped, and the MAF "cleaned", and has rod knock in 200 miles.

If one isn't attentive enough to plug in fuel lines and wires what are the chances of getting all of the tolerances and torques done properly when assembling the motor.

On the fuel in the oil front, an injector was swapped? was the oil changed then too? was the first bad injector stuck open? how much fuel was dumped when the injector was being swapped?

So following your logic and saying its MAF's or something else on the car, how does this explain it not running well in another car, as well as someone else's chip working good in this car. Did the bad maf decide it liked life after he put a different chip in, or the fuel pump decide with a different chip it was going to work good. Did both cars have bad MAF's or fuel pump's or whatever else is bad to suit your argument.

[Massive Lee]

I have built several carburated engines. Yes, carburators can flood a motor with fuel, but generally it will happen if floats are sticking, or if the accelerator pump was activated continuously. This can lead to raw fuel being dumped into the cylinder walls and reaching the pan. And when a motor is flooded this way, it smells and the situation is pretty evident.

I have yet to see properly working injectors dump enough raw fuel in a motor to match half of what a carb can do. An even at that level, the engine wouldn't simply be firing, from being way over rich. Wouldn't a heavy smell of fuel be perceived anyway? Fuel and oil would mix on the cylinder walls and make a heavy smoke.

So, basically, after reading pages of explanations, I still wonder how come so much fuel had reached the oil, is it really caused by the chip, and if there was indeed contaminated oil, was it really the cause of failed bearings? How long the engine was run after rebuild and prior to the chip? BTW what percentage of fuel/oil? How was it tested? Any licenced laboratory that can testify? How long was the engine run in such poor conditions? And why not stopping earlier if it was clear someting was wrong?

The chip may be defective. But many aspects of the problem are not clear yet. Threatening to sue TRM is not the most intelligent thing to do in order to get service. Especially when no phone call has been done before posting slendering and legal threats. I wonder what judge Judy would think... The case doesn't show good intentions from the OP, and his requests might be denied pretty quick. But hey. What do I know? I am a mechanic, not a lawyer...

[jahnaboi]

Just read 5 pages of this. Massive Lee, he isn't claiming to sue so I don't know where you pulled that one from, but from what I've read and comprehended, BMW_Tuner is clearly stating he just wants his refund from the chip. Disregarding his motor being obliterated by the chip, that's all he's asking for. Does that sound like much for such a hefty fuck up?... I think not.

Also, all I see is that the representatives/people associated with TRM, seem to be on the defensive side while trying to vaguely "blame" user error. The OP obviously isn't just a tool who turns wrenches. Trouble-shooting faulty parts with known running cars is a lot more viable than bringing up a SN to check what you have burned into a chip. You guys act like you are the perfect company that never makes a mistake. I can assure you, you guys are not. Not one company nor person/being is perfect so why is it so hard to believe that there might be a "small" liability on your company's behalf? This isn't rocket science.

I'm not perfect nor will I ever claim myself to be but seeing that you look at all probable causes before your own makes me think you do think your product / process is flawless. Honestly put yourself in his shoes and see how you would feel. Now lets add your "mechanically inclined" knowledge, skills and certifications. If you knew the chip was bad and the company wouldn't believe you how would you go about it? My point exactly.

I just think you guys need to meet in the middle.

[mattdk318i]

Just read 5 pages of this. Massive Lee, he isn't claiming to sue so I don't know where you pulled that one from, but from what I've read and comprehended, BMW_Tuner is clearly stating he just wants his refund from the chip. Disregarding his motor being obliterated by the chip, that's all he's asking for. Does that sound like much for such a hefty fuck up?... I think not.

Also, all I see is that the representatives/people associated with TRM, seem to be on the defensive side while trying to vaguely "blame" user error. The OP obviously isn't just a tool who turns wrenches. Trouble-shooting faulty parts with known running cars is a lot more viable than bringing up a SN to check what you have burned into a chip. You guys act like you are the perfect company that never makes a mistake. I can assure you, you guys are not. Not one company nor person/being is perfect so why is it so hard to believe that there might be a "small" liability on your company's behalf? This isn't rocket science.

I'm not perfect nor will I ever claim myself to be but seeing that you look at all probable causes before your own makes me think you do think your product / process is flawless. Honestly put yourself in his shoes and see how you would feel. Now lets add your "mechanically inclined" knowledge, skills and certifications. If you knew the chip was bad and the company wouldn't believe you how would you go about it? My point exactly.

I just think you guys need to meet in the middle.

this

[Massive Lee]

... then we will have our day in court as they sold a product not as advertised and according to Georgia law I can and will represent myself in a court of law without being bar certified in that state and I will be seeking far more than the price of the chip.

What about the above? Maybe I misinterprated it.

I totally understand the frustration of the car's owner. But maybe, and I say maybe, he was too quick at hanging TRM and putting the blame on the chip, with the clean intent of ruining TRM's reputation (which I am not affilated with, or never heard of before today). The OP used his own protocole to determine it was the chip's fault. Maybe another protocole would say the opposite. Did he spend a week without reply? Was he left hanging without support for that long, or is it a day or two over the weekend when perhaps the shop guys are out there racing and testing?

Anyway, I hope that dust will settle, and that the reason of all shit will be found, to the benefit of both parties.

[gregslow318i]

just to make this clear I would also like a refund for my chip but I dough I will ever get get one...

[e30s52]

just to make this clear I would also like a refund for my chip but I dough I will ever get get one...

Tryed it and I got nothing. They said it is sapposed to idle like that :???:

[z31maniac]

I'm not defending TRM or the OP, but I want to make sure I read the first post correctly.

YOu installed TRM chip in new motor and it ran like shit, this same chip ran like shit in another car. You put a known good TMS chip in your car and it ran the way it was supposed to.

THEN you put the TRM chip back in your car, it ran like shit, and you continued to run it until the engine grenaded itself.

Did I read the first post correctly?

[Pudmunkie]

I would prefer not to jump into the middle of an open debate, but the topic is interesting...

I bought a 98 S52 that had supposedly very very low miles on it (confirmed by VIN). It was pulled from a swapped car.

When I drained the motor It literally poured out at least 2 gallons of oil and gasoline.

I am certainly not insinuating that the motor had any brand of tune or making any claims as to its prior life, I just thought I would toss out that I have seen a BMW motor flooded with gasoline before.