Clutch issues- Totally STUMPED- !!FIXED 4/9

[Jonny Cash]

danny that sounds good. i searched it but didnt find anything.

g, the disk is marked "gearbox side" so its hard to install incorrectly

[FredK]

Yes, if you use a G250 slave cylinder, the clutch effort is decreased--which means it has more of a hydraulic ratio between master and slave. Therefore, the overall travel is likely decreased, which would make this problem worse.

I tried a G250 slave, and I did not like the engagement point, so I switched back to a ZF slave.

[giantkeeper]

Wait, no. Thats impossible. The only way you could install it is 180deg off (upsidedown) , and even if so, its universal side to side. Both ears are the same.

Actually, this is incorrect. It can be installed incorrectly and it will keep the Slave from reaching the fork correctly. FYI

[ForcedFirebird]

Actually, this is incorrect. It can be installed incorrectly and it will keep the Slave from reaching the fork correctly. FYI

Reread the post. He mentioned the flats facing North/South vs East/West, as long as the bearing faces the clutch and it's on the front of the fork, it's kinda hard to mess up beyond that.

[gobuffs]

Actually, this is incorrect. It can be installed incorrectly and it will keep the Slave from reaching the fork correctly. FYI

At least somebody isn't high and mighty...thank you.

And if you know what I have done to my car over the years, I think you can safely say I am not a "mutha fuckin dumbass."- thank you Mr Swiss....please tell me that to my face sometime.

I shoudl say...and it appears to make more of a difference...that I did it with the Bimmerworld aluminum throwout bearing and not a stock one. See pic 1 (tob1)....the left one is the Bimmerworld piece, the right one is a stock E46 M3 one. You can see the steps on the part and how much it differs from 90 degrees out. The E46 piece has the same step off but not nearly as great. In the 2nd pic you can see that the diameter is identical if you install it 90 degrees out but the flats aren't on the 90 degree out side so the throwout bearing will have more radial play in the fork. Not paying attention to when I put it in caused the problem, but it CAN go in easily without forcing it. The net result is a clutch that won't disengage.

Looks like the tranny will have to come out to solve the issue and the throwout bearing is easily ruled in or ruled out...jsut something to consider.

Back to the normal bashing of "mutha fuckin dumbass" posters.

[ForcedFirebird]

At least somebody isn't high and mighty...thank you.

And if you know what I have done to my car over the years, I think you can safely say I am not a "mutha fuckin dumbass."- thank you Mr Swiss....please tell me that to my face sometime.

I shoudl say...and it appears to make more of a difference...that I did it with the Bimmerworld aluminum throwout bearing and not a stock one. See pic 1 (tob1)....the left one is the Bimmerworld piece, the right one is a stock E46 M3 one. You can see the steps on the part and how much it differs from 90 degrees out. The E46 piece has the same step off but not nearly as great. In the 2nd pic you can see that the diameter is identical if you install it 90 degrees out but the flats aren't on the 90 degree out side so the throwout bearing will have more radial play in the fork. Not paying attention to when I put it in caused the problem, but it CAN go in easily without forcing it. The net result is a clutch that won't disengage.

Looks like the tranny will have to come out to solve the issue and the throwout bearing is easily ruled in or ruled out...jsut something to consider.

Back to the normal bashing of "mutha fuckin dumbass" posters.

One dumbass to another (J/K), the e30/e36 TOB's have a round circle with two "cut-offs" unlike the pics posted. You would literally have to press the TOB in wrong.

It seems like a simple solution to all this, it's standard procedure, day in and day out. Personally, can't even tell you how many transmissions have been on the floor this month, only one was auto in a '03 e46 in for an m54 engine replacement due to severe overheating, the rest were e30's with ZF's and/or G260/240.

We all make mistakes, the only variable in this situation is the machined dual mass and fresh Sach's clutch kit, all the other parts worked perfectly prior to swap in the 97 m3.

[Mr.SWISS]

At least somebody isn't high and mighty...thank you.

And if you know what I have done to my car over the years, I think you can safely say I am not a "mutha fuckin dumbass."- thank you Mr Swiss....please tell me that to my face sometime.

I shoudl say...and it appears to make more of a difference...that I did it with the Bimmerworld aluminum throwout bearing and not a stock one. See pic 1 (tob1)....the left one is the Bimmerworld piece, the right one is a stock E46 M3 one. You can see the steps on the part and how much it differs from 90 degrees out. The E46 piece has the same step off but not nearly as great. In the 2nd pic you can see that the diameter is identical if you install it 90 degrees out but the flats aren't on the 90 degree out side so the throwout bearing will have more radial play in the fork. Not paying attention to when I put it in caused the problem, but it CAN go in easily without forcing it. The net result is a clutch that won't disengage.

Looks like the tranny will have to come out to solve the issue and the throwout bearing is easily ruled in or ruled out...jsut something to consider.

Back to the normal bashing of "mutha fuckin dumbass" posters.

One dumbass to another (J/K), the e30/e36 TOB's have a round circle with two "cut-offs" unlike the pics posted. You would literally have to press the TOB in wrong.

exactly and it would likely break before it got too far on the pivot shaft.

It slides on easily when you install it with the slots all together, to MAKE it fit any other way takes some serious dumbass and effort like FF was pointing out. You have to try to be a fuck up to do it wrong.

I don;t know you or your technical expertise,I'm in OK, and know how brilliant Texans can be at times. :rofl:

If you use the ZF specific slave, a stock clutch setup, and a ZF 320 it all works fantastic together. I use a UUC line just for the pedal effort.

Now I'm no master tech ninja like yourself and Wangchung ,but I put my ZF trans in half stoned with a friend that was 3 sheets and it fuckin works great lol. IDK about "lightening" a DM flywheel, sounds like a terrible idea said the crankshaft to the balancer.

;)

[giantkeeper]

At least somebody isn't high and mighty...thank you.

And if you know what I have done to my car over the years, I think you can safely say I am not a "mutha fuckin dumbass."- thank you Mr Swiss....please tell me that to my face sometime.

I shoudl say...and it appears to make more of a difference...that I did it with the Bimmerworld aluminum throwout bearing and not a stock one. See pic 1 (tob1)....the left one is the Bimmerworld piece, the right one is a stock E46 M3 one. You can see the steps on the part and how much it differs from 90 degrees out. The E46 piece has the same step off but not nearly as great. In the 2nd pic you can see that the diameter is identical if you install it 90 degrees out but the flats aren't on the 90 degree out side so the throwout bearing will have more radial play in the fork. Not paying attention to when I put it in caused the problem, but it CAN go in easily without forcing it. The net result is a clutch that won't disengage.

Looks like the tranny will have to come out to solve the issue and the throwout bearing is easily ruled in or ruled out...jsut something to consider.

Back to the normal bashing of "mutha fuckin dumbass" posters.

Interesting!

I actually had the same issue installing BW's new Stage two kit (yeah, that crazy $1600 setup) on an E36 track car. I had a buddy helping me (which I never do and exactly for this reason) and he installed the TOB incorrectly, and therefore the fork was goofy.

[FredK]

I'm not sure how making fun of someone is useful to this discussion. No one is perfect.

[gobuffs]

I don;t know you or your technical expertise,I'm in OK, and know how brilliant Texans can be at times. :rofl:

Maybe you do...I never said I was in Texas.

[Mr.SWISS]

Maybe you do...I never said I was in Texas.

What's the part # on the slave you're using? Did you personally slide the TOB on? I ask because you would see the shaft is flat on the sides to keep the TOB in the proper orientation. Lightening the DM flywheel is a terrible idea IMO. It's not the reason for the issues you have now, but it will be for the ones you have down the road.

[gobuffs]

I don't recall the PN...pretty sure it was an E36 325 slave. Yes I did put the TOB on...yes I see the flat sides after the fact, but it (Bimmerworld aluminum replacement part vs the stock plastic part) went on without issue.

[Mr.SWISS]

I don't recall the PN...pretty sure it was an E36 325 slave. Yes I did put the TOB on...yes I see the flat sides after the fact, but it (Bimmerworld aluminum replacement part vs the stock plastic part) went on without issue.

I'm telling you if you want this done for once and all pull the trans, get a ZF specifc slave, and install it with the line hanging down then stab the tranny all together.


WTF is this Bimmerworld part you speak of, and why is it necessary?

[jekaio]

sorry, i didnt read the entire thread, BUT

BMW's repair instructions for bleeding the slave cylinder:

1. use a special tool, but in your case, whatever you can fab up to keep the piston pushed in all the way and held there.

2. Once the piston is pushed in all the way, bleed the line.

3. Once there are no air bubbles present, then you back out the piston a little bit (maybe an inch) and continue to bleed it some more, until there are no air bubbles.

hope this helps somebody out in the future.

[gobuffs]

The Bimmerworld TOB is included in the strapless PP setup. The body is aluminum vs plastic. When you plastic TOB explodes you'll see the logic. BTDT have the broken parts to prove it. Getting out all the ball bearings was more difficult then you'd expect. When you think you have the last one another one rolls around when you are trying to put the tranny back in.