Clutch issues- Totally STUMPED- !!FIXED 4/9

[Mr.SWISS]

The Bimmerworld TOB is included in the strapless PP setup. The body is aluminum vs plastic. When you plastic TOB explodes you'll see the logic. BTDT have the broken parts to prove it. Getting out all the ball bearings was more difficult then you'd expect. When you think you have the last one another one rolls around when you are trying to put the tranny back in.

So you dissect the OE TOB and replace the base with the machined part from bw huh....


And you said it goes on the pilot shaft fine, and is machined to match the shape of the shaft so it doesn't rotate on it?

have you pulled the trans out again yet? I would just do it, faster you do faster you will be back on the road.


Swallow the pill and it will all get beterr.

[gobuffs]

The upgraded TOB is a standard piece with the clutch kit I bought. I already fixed my issue- the tranny had to come back out. As soon as I saw the face of the PP I realized the issue. That particular setup has been upgraded to the current version 2 from Bimmerworld.

[Wanganstyle]

The upgraded TOB is a standard piece with the clutch kit I bought. I already fixed my issue- the tranny had to come back out. As soon as I saw the face of the PP I realized the issue. That particular setup has been upgraded to the current version 2 from Bimmerworld.

have you considered going to a T56/saab/benz style hydrolic throw out bearing? benz euro cars have ZF boxes and seem very similar to the bmw setups but run a hydrolic TOB. seems to have no plastic.

also been considering the the 2009+ integrated clutch fork+TOB units, they seem ideal in the case of install error.

[gobuffs]

Yeah I have. Was thinking it would be a fairly straight forward P&P but appears that it is not. Had other things I wanted to spend money on this off season- mainly E46 M3 CSL ABS and traction control.

[Jonny Cash]

At least somebody isn't high and mighty...thank you.

And if you know what I have done to my car over the years, I think you can safely say I am not a "mutha fuckin dumbass."- thank you Mr Swiss....please tell me that to my face sometime.

I shoudl say...and it appears to make more of a difference...that I did it with the Bimmerworld aluminum throwout bearing and not a stock one. See pic 1 (tob1)....the left one is the Bimmerworld piece, the right one is a stock E46 M3 one. You can see the steps on the part and how much it differs from 90 degrees out. The E46 piece has the same step off but not nearly as great. In the 2nd pic you can see that the diameter is identical if you install it 90 degrees out but the flats aren't on the 90 degree out side so the throwout bearing will have more radial play in the fork. Not paying attention to when I put it in caused the problem, but it CAN go in easily without forcing it. The net result is a clutch that won't disengage.

Looks like the tranny will have to come out to solve the issue and the throwout bearing is easily ruled in or ruled out...jsut something to consider.

Back to the normal bashing of "mutha fuckin dumbass" posters.

. We're discussing how to potentially diagnose my problem and youre telling short stories about your feelings hurt.
The parts in question arent even the same ones youre using.. For the record the parts Im using CANNOT go in without forcing it,, bottom Fn line. And you wonder why its so hard to search for accurate information..

Since Ive last updated Ive swapped out the master cylinder again for precaution. Ive also dropped the trans again tonight and thoroughly inspected everything. Replaced the Flywheel with a differet stock replacement. Bolted everything back up carefully
, and we still have a disengaging issue. Its slightly better, will shift SLIGHTLY easier, but still catches at the bottom of the pedal and is very hard to go into gear at a stop.

Im almost ready to throw in the towel,,

[328ijunkie]

Still seems like its not bled all the way.

[gkurey]

This might sound crazy, but is the clutch in backwards? we had an e30 where the clutch was put in backwards and the clutch wouldn't disengage.

To the OP, I also had similar problems to you with my S52 and ZF trans. At first I tried bleeding it in different ways, swapping slaves, etc and nothing worked. I decided to open up the tranny again. I had accidentally installed the clutch disc backwards....sounds like a huge noob mistake, but the disc wasnt marked at all and the hub of the clutch disc looks like it doesnt matter, but the hub is flexed/rounded to one side, far enough to rub on the flywheel nuts and causing a binding condition, keeping the clutch from disengaging and causing your described condition. I flipped it around and that fixed my problem.

Later, the problem popped up again...i.e. poor pedal response/engagement and when trying to put the car in first, it inches fwd, etc. I bled the system and everything seemed OK but upon further inspection, my firewall bracket was sheared and the clutch master cylinder shaft was actually not getting full travel when I pushed on the pedal, thus keeping 100% actuation even though my hydraulics were functioning properly. I'd look at that too if you haven't already. Here's a pic from my repair of that one:

Sheared pedal bracket


Pounded and re-welded


My poor master...yours doesn't need to be this severe to cause the symptoms.


I'd look into this just because it's simple to check. It can be hard to tell on the car, but check the pedal bracket...look for flexing when you hit the pedal with your hands. If its not this, and the system is bled well, my money is on the clutch disc...its the only rational explanation. Looking for a pic of the clutch disc to help with my explanation of that...

[nrubenstein]

Are you sure you are using the correct pivot fork? If you use one from, say, a dual mass clutch car, you will have these exact symptoms. Ask me how I know.

[ForcedFirebird]

Are you sure you are using the correct pivot fork? If you use one from, say, a dual mass clutch car, you will have these exact symptoms. Ask me how I know.

Engine/trans removed from running/driving e36 m3, new clutch kit, put in e30. There's ZERO mismatched parts.

Tried another m3 dual mass FW since the refaced unit didn't have a nice finish, got a little better. Car goes into gear now with engine running, car not moving and clutch in, but the clutch still releases immediately off the floor.

[Jonny Cash]

Yea, its been in and out more than a few times. Pivot ball, and pin inspected -- everything else is brand new-- Still at a loss. Ill probably start fresh with a getrag, and new clutch kit after this weekends sebring event.

[Jonny Cash]

To the OP, I also had similar problems to you with my S52 and ZF trans. At first I tried bleeding it in different ways, swapping slaves, etc and nothing worked. I decided to open up the tranny again. I had accidentally installed the clutch disc backwards....sounds like a huge noob mistake, but the disc wasnt marked at all and the hub of the clutch disc looks like it doesnt matter, but the hub is flexed/rounded to one side, far enough to rub on the flywheel nuts and causing a binding condition, keeping the clutch from disengaging and causing your described condition. I flipped it around and that fixed my problem.

Later, the problem popped up again...i.e. poor pedal response/engagement and when trying to put the car in first, it inches fwd, etc. I bled the system and everything seemed OK but upon further inspection, my firewall bracket was sheared and the clutch master cylinder shaft was actually not getting full travel when I pushed on the pedal, thus keeping 100% actuation even though my hydraulics were functioning properly. I'd look at that too if you haven't already. Here's a pic from my repair of that one:

Sheared pedal bracket


Pounded and re-welded


My poor master...yours doesn't need to be this severe to cause the symptoms.


I'd look into this just because it's simple to check. It can be hard to tell on the car, but check the pedal bracket...look for flexing when you hit the pedal with your hands. If its not this, and the system is bled well, my money is on the clutch disc...its the only rational explanation. Looking for a pic of the clutch disc to help with my explanation of that...

You know, everything said and done, only problem i can think of is something wrong with my pedal linkage, but I inspected everything, and cant see anything out of the ordinary..
I did notice however my clutch pedal is plastic.. first ive ever seen that.
Tomorrow ill give it another look.

[atldohc]

Engine/trans removed from running/driving e36 m3, new clutch kit, put in e30. There's ZERO mismatched parts.

Tried another m3 dual mass FW since the refaced unit didn't have a nice finish, got a little better. Car goes into gear now with engine running, car not moving and clutch in, but the clutch still releases immediately off the floor.

ive posted this in other threads before, but i had the same experience with those parts. i had the engine and trans from 98 m3, and stock dual mass fw and clutch. original e30 master. clutch would engage right when pedal was barely lifted from the floor. ive read a few others post they had the same experience. dont know if it will fix the actual shifting problems youre having. but a 325is slave cylinder from a 93 or 94 fixed the pedal height engagement issue for me. only side effect was the pedal effort became stiffer

[Jonny Cash]

^ So what exactly was the difference between the two?

[atldohc]

I honestly can't remember Since I did this a couple years ago. I believe the rods were different lengths and I'd imagine the inner bore size could be as well, but I don't think that would be visible externally. But I just remember seeing the rods were different lengths so I said f it I'll try it. And it's been in there ever since

[Mr.SWISS]

Drop trans, install zf specific slave, stab trans with slave installed correctly.

Then pump the pedal and watch the bubbles....