Getting BAR'd Certified, Fail... HELP!

[blackhawkimpact]

Got this B**ch to the ref and still got BS HC numbers after replacing the chip and injectors. :-/

[franky2fingaz]

Got this B**ch to the ref and still got BS HC numbers after replacing the chip and injectors. :-/

What thermostat temp you running?

If it's a low temp thermostat then you will run rich...

[blackhawkimpact]

I think I'm running the 80c thermostat, not sure though

[franky2fingaz]

I'm not sure what factory temp specs are after warm-up, but if 80C is below factory spec then engine runs richer, thinking it's still warming up.. . Plus don't forget if ran rich for some time then cats will be inefficient... you need a Laser thermometer and do some homework before throwing more $$ at it..

Edit: according to pelican, they are 88C or 92C.. so it's possible if you're running a low temp thermo which most tuned chips call for then you're burning rich...

[blackhawkimpact]

Can I be running that rich just because of a low thermo temp?

[franky2fingaz]

yes it doesn't take much... again you could have crap cats and we are assuming all else is good and stock with no codes. Thermostat is cheap and worth a try.. this is problem solving, you must isolate the expensive fix if there is one..
With a cold thermostat on a stock chip, it's like being on constant warm-up mode and too much fuel getting dumped in the cats, after saturation the fuel ignites and cats become 'critical' and inefficient...

[blackhawkimpact]

Bringing this back up...
So I haven't had any time or money to actually keep fixing the e30. I finally have some time and some saved money. Before I go and buy new cats I'm going to replace the thermostat to a stock 88c, spark plugs (NGK BKR6EK/2288), oil and also going to change the MAF to the stock MAF (currently running the 3.5 MAF). Previously I took off the pink injectors and TRM chip and it still didn't pass. I'm also running the red label 413 ecu, is this ok to pass smog or should I be getting the silver label 506? I've been reading a lot of threads on R3v about e30 24v passing smog test and getting BAR'd and a lot of people pass with the chip and pink injectors installed. I'm going to replace the parts this weekend and then take it to a friend's shop to run a pre-test.

So far these are my attempts at passing smog

Test 1;
Red label 413 with TRM chip
3.5 MAF with stock e30 airbox
Headers
Stock e36 m3 cats
Pink injectors
91 octane
80c Thermostat ( Not sure if 80c or stock 88c)

Test results: FAIL
15MPH= RPM(1755), %CO2(14.5), %O2(0.3), HC PPM(85/256), CO%(0.50/0.49), NO PPM(695/1550) FAIL
25MPH= RPM(287, %CO2(14.7), %O2(0.0), HC PPM(50/66), CO%(0.47/0.1, NO PPM(717/107) FAIL


Test 2;

Red label 413 with TRM chip
3.5 MAF with stock e30 airbox
Headers
New Walker cats ( Ref said cats I bought weren't for the 95 e36 m3)
Pink injectors
91 octane
80c Thermostat ( Not sure if 80c or stock 88c)

Test results: Fail

15MPH= RPM(1752), %CO2(14.9), %O2(0.3), HC PPM(85/158), CO%(0.50/0.1, NO PPM(695/474) FAIL
25MPH= RPM(2854), %CO2(15.0), %O2(0.0), HC PPM(50/82), CO%(0.47/0.04), NO PPM(717/15) FAIL


Test 3;

Red label 413 with stock chip (no TRM chip)
3.5 MAF with stock e30 airbox
Headers
Stock e36 M3 cats
Stock green injectors?? (17.5)
91 octane
80c Thermostat ( Not sure if 80c or stock 88c)

Test results: Fail

15MPH= RPM(1720), %CO2(14.7), %O2(1.3), HC PPM(85/205), CO%(0.50/0.52), NO PPM(695/661) FAIL
25MPH= RPM(2856), %CO2(14., %O2(0.0), HC PPM(50/78), CO%(0.47/0.21), NO PPM(717/73) FAIL

[smooth]

I'm not sure what factory temp specs are after warm-up, but if 80C is below factory spec then engine runs richer, thinking it's still warming up.. . Plus don't forget if ran rich for some time then cats will be inefficient... you need a Laser thermometer and do some homework before throwing more $$ at it..

Edit: according to pelican, they are 88C or 92C.. so it's possible if you're running a low temp thermo which most tuned chips call for then you're burning rich...

Is 88 considered low or were you telling him that 80 would cause issue? I think I have an 88 but wondering what switching to 92 would do both positive and negative

Now that you're on a stock chip go back to 87 octane. Too high octane can increase HC

[blackhawkimpact]

88c thermostat is stock, 80c is low

[mtech325]

If you haven't seen this post, scroll towards the bottom of the page, some good info there:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116332

Seems like you will need new cats however. To put it into perspective, my friend has an s52 obd1, stock maf, TRM chip, and 24 lb injectors, and 80c thermostat and his car passed very easily because of new cats. You can use the 413 red label.

You can try an 88c thermostat as the stock thermostat in the e36 is 88c or 92c depending on climate, but fresh cats and o2 sensor do wonders..........just not to the wallet!

[smooth]

I was editing my post as you were responding. Go back to stock 87 octane, too

[blackhawkimpact]

Yea, I've read that thread. I already have a new o2 sensor in there also. I ran the test with new cats but still failed. According to the ref the cats were not for the s50 so he said I wouldn't of passed the visual even if I passed smog, but failed regardless. But cats are cats so with new cats in there I should of pass smog, no? Or are cats different inside for different cars?

[smooth]

also, it's been sitting a while...did I read that right? Dump your old fuel into a container or use it up and fresh fill before you test again.

[blackhawkimpact]

Tank was on E on the days of the test so I had fresh fuel in there every time I went to the shop to take the test

[smooth]

Tank was on E on the days of the test so I had fresh fuel in there every time I went to the shop to take the test

Cats are cats you're right about that but you're running too high octane now that everything else is back to stock.