s54 problems solved?

[Jason89i]

The S54 has a much more complex engine management wiring than OBD1 S50-S52. It requires the e46 dash cluster, the ABS module (speed sensor) etc. which is why most S54 swaps use aftermarket engine management. The Euro S52 is only down 21hp, and is easier to wire.

agreed. that is the why most people here are hot-to-trot on the issue. there are really only a couple options for the s54 conversion.... each has its plusses and minuses.

1. mss54 dme. assuming you dont have an electrical engineering degree and deep pockets, the mss54 is near impossible to get to work. you can, however, send it out to get some programing done to eliminate datalink, a/c, traction, abs, t-by wire ect.

2. stand alone engine management. few support dual vanos.

3. use the mss50 (euro s50b32) wiring harness and dme on the s54 engine.

[hoveringuy]

No the euro S50 DME is missing entire busses that the S54 requires to operate. Not to mention all S54s shipped with EWS3.1.

Show me an S54 running on any S50 DME euro or otherwise and I'll not only be impressed I might ask you some fun questions.

I've had a little practice working out the S54 into other chassis problems and it is nowhere near as simple as any of the other common e30 swaps.Erik

No, the S50 DME is missing entire busses that the S54 DME requires to operate. The engine couldn't care less about EWS, ABS, CAN, etc.

It need spark, fuel and VANOS control.

I agree that the factory DME is best because the maps have been so well developed but the euro S50 is a close second. Glenn just finished his swap and I'm sure it won't be long before we see dyno data and he gets his redline raised.

I also don't think dual VANOS is as tough a problem as everybody makes it out to be. The S54 has a high pressure VANOS pump to allow for smaller actuators and it has extra cam sensors for better resolution, but technically it is easier to control than standard dual VANOS.

[nando]

No, the S50 DME is missing entire busses that the S54 DME requires to operate. The engine couldn't care less about EWS, ABS, CAN, etc.

It need spark, fuel and VANOS control.

I agree that the factory DME is best because the maps have been so well developed but the euro S50 is a close second. Glenn just finished his swap and I'm sure it won't be long before we see dyno data and he gets his redline raised.

I also don't think dual VANOS is as tough a problem as everybody makes it out to be. The S54 has a high pressure VANOS pump to allow for smaller actuators and it has extra cam sensors for better resolution, but technically it is easier to control than standard dual VANOS.

yep, an engine is an engine - give it fuel, spark and air, it will run. Almost anything could run an S54. You could do it with a 413 and locked cams, but you'd miss out on the wide torque curve of the dual vanos. Hell you could run it on Motronic 1.3 if you really wanted to. The only thing special about the S54 ECU is it already has tuned maps for the motor and dual vanos control.

[SA E30]

This is more than likely what we will use.

http://www.gotech.co.za

EDIT: I see they don't have their VANOS controller on the site.EDIT NO2: The Gotech MFI Pro X has the ability to control the vanos. If this doesn't work out we will Cam the motor and lock the VANOS. It is for a race car anyways.

[hoveringuy]

You could do it with a 413 and locked cams, but you'd miss out on the wide torque curve of the dual vanos.

Or you could do it with a 413 and a standalone VANOS controller, but I have NO idea where you could find something like that...

[Bimmerman325i]

Or you could do it with a 413 and a standalone VANOS controller, but I have NO idea where you could find something like that...

Would your single vanos controller work for the S54 cams? Obviously with two or some snazzy retrofitting.

[hoveringuy]

Would your single vanos controller work for the S54 cams? Obviously with two or some snazzy retrofitting.

It already is a dual VANOS controller!

It would need some re-configuration. First, because the M54/S50/etc cams have the cam sensor divided into 2 halves which gives 1 signal per crank revolution. The S54 has 7 segments but really 6 of those are equally spaced so you have 3 cam signals per crank revolution. That gives you much better control fidelity.

Also, the gains might need to be adjusted on the Proportional-Integral control if the VANOS response is much different. The S54 uses high pressure, but I also believe that it has much smaller pistons.

I know that I can traverse 20 cam degrees of intake advance in about 1/2 second and I think the S54 can do it in 200 miliseconds, but I'm not sure if that's for 15 or 30 degrees because the default position is in the middle.

Also, the S54 has 2 solenoids per cam where the M54 has 1 solenoid per cam. Another small software change and some additional MOSFETs.

It could certainly be done but I don't see the point of it. I'm actually more interested in the N52, but that's another story..

[Bimmerman325i]

It already is a dual VANOS controller!

It would need some re-configuration. First, because the M54/S50/etc cams have the cam sensor divided into 2 halves which gives 1 signal per crank revolution. The S54 has 7 segments but really 6 of those are equally spaced so you have 3 cam signals per crank revolution. That gives you much better control fidelity.

Also, the gains might need to be adjusted on the Proportional-Integral control if the VANOS response is much different. The S54 uses high pressure, but I also believe that it has much smaller pistons.

I know that I can traverse 20 cam degrees of intake advance in about 1/2 second and I think the S54 can do it in 200 miliseconds, but I'm not sure if that's for 15 or 30 degrees because the default position is in the middle.

Also, the S54 has 2 solenoids per cam where the M54 has 1 solenoid per cam. Another small software change and some additional MOSFETs.

It could certainly be done but I don't see the point of it. I'm actually more interested in the N52, but that's another story..

Sorry, my mistake. I read standalone and got single mixed in my head.

If it is cost/time effective to make such a controller, there may be a good number of people who would pick one up and use for race cars or street conversions.

As far as the N52 goes, wouldn't that motor be even more of a pain electronics-wise? Even with the VANOS controller?

[hoveringuy]

If it is cost/time effective to make such a controller, there may be a good number of people who would pick one up and use for race cars or street conversions.

It would work, but the 413 has limits to how well it scales up to higher rpms. Why would anybody want an S54 with a 7200 rpm redline? By the time you fix the 413 you might as well go with AEM. Also because there are so many people interested in know there's plenty of effort going in to unlocking the stock ECU.

As far as the N52 goes, wouldn't that motor be even more of a pain electronics-wise? Even with the VANOS controller?

I'm looking into building an electronic throttle interface for my car right now. It would give me the larger 70mm throttle body in place of my 64mm OBD1 unit and I would use an electric throttle pedal. I believe the N52 just uses the same signal to control intake valve lift through a jackscrew instead of the throttle body. There's also the water pump and some other stuff but the latest version of N52 is rated for 272hp. It could be done.

The motor has a magnesium block, I'm totally in to the light weight. Light weight is power in itself. Ask Lotus.

[Bimmerman325i]

It would work, but the 413 has limits to how well it scales up to higher rpms. Why would anybody want an S54 with a 7200 rpm redline? By the time you fix the 413 you might as well go with AEM. Also because there are so many people interested in know there's plenty of effort going in to unlocking the stock ECU.

True, but the affordable and semi-affordable standalones can't handle the vanos, which is where your controller could be useful. Then again, most people using a standalone S54 have locked cams, roll cages, and trailers to get the car from place to place.

I'm looking into building an electronic throttle interface for my car right now. It would give me the larger 70mm throttle body in place of my 64mm OBD1 unit and I would use an electric throttle pedal. I believe the N52 just uses the same signal to control intake valve lift through a jackscrew instead of the throttle body. There's also the water pump and some other stuff but the latest version of N52 is rated for 272hp. It could be done.

The motor has a magnesium block, I'm totally in to the light weight. Light weight is power in itself. Ask Lotus.

Oooooh, I thought you meant N54. It should be infinitely simpler without the turbo control software and devices. Would you still be using the N52 on the 413? Also, didn't the N52 only come to the US in the 06 330i? Isn't the N52 also a direct injection with valvetronic as well as double vanos?

A magnesium high power engine would be simply amazing....lighter than any M/S5x motor, more powerful, cleaner, more efficient.....yay.

[hoveringuy]

Oooooh, I thought you meant N54. It should be infinitely simpler without the turbo control software and devices. Would you still be using the N52 on the 413? Also, didn't the N52 only come to the US in the 06 330i? Isn't the N52 also a direct injection with valvetronic as well as double vanos?

A magnesium high power engine would be simply amazing....lighter than any M/S5x motor, more powerful, cleaner, more efficient.....yay.

N54 is different beast altogether.

N53 is the direct injection version, but that hasn't come to the states yet due to low sulfur fuel requirement.

N52 is the "pedestrian" engine in the BMW family and comes on 330's, X3's, etc. just like the M50 was the standard engine 15 years ago. Technology marches on.

The 413 would run the fuel/injection same as it does on my M54, the valvetronic, VANOS, DISA, water and oil pumps would be controlled seperately.

I really like the feel of the aluminum engine. If I ever want to simulate an S50 I can throw a 50lb sack of concrete on my hood.

It's just a thought for now but when I finish this project I'll start casually looking for one.

[glenn s62]

i have the s54 in my e30 m3, running with the euro s50b32 engine loom and siemens
mss50 ecu and a couple of s50 sensors
i'm not really bothered who believe's me, it's not like i'm trying to sell anything.
i just have to fine tune/finnish off a couple of things and then it'll be off for a dyno run

[SpecM]

i have the s54 in my e30 m3, running with the euro s50b32 engine loom and siemens
mss50 ecu and a couple of s50 sensors
i'm not really bothered who believe's me, it's not like i'm trying to sell anything.
i just have to fine tune/finnish off a couple of things and then it'll be off for a dyno run

i'll be interested in those results

not out of skeptisim, but I would just really like to see them

[Bimmerman325i]

i'll be interested in those results

not out of skeptisim, but I would just really like to see them

Same! I think some of the confusion here may be on whether you are using the US S50 (413) DME or the Euro (MSS50) DME. The Euro engine is the most similar to the S54, so it follows that the DMEs would be as well.

Please do post results when you have them, we're all very interested to see how it comes out!

[BingM3]

If putting a "54" engine into an E30 is that easy, we should be seeing many swaps today...engine came out 2001, it's 2009:)