N52 Swap Discussion

[HCMW Adam]

Unless you're body swapping the entire harness and all of the modules, there's not really any way to make it work properly without modifying the DME. For example, making the VSS input work properly without the DSC unit, adjusting the water pump speed to work without the radiator temp sensor input, etc. There were a lot of little things we tweaked on hoveringuy 's car to make everything work properly. Having the CAS might be fun for starting without a key (or retrofitting comfort access) but I don't see much point in doing that.

I'm picking up what you're putting down. I now know I must have the ECM modified and that will define some of my other considerations.

[nando]

Unless you're body swapping the entire harness and all of the modules, there's not really any way to make it work properly without modifying the DME. For example, making the VSS input work properly without the DSC unit, adjusting the water pump speed to work without the radiator temp sensor input, etc. There were a lot of little things we tweaked on hoveringuy 's car to make everything work properly. Having the CAS might be fun for starting without a key (or retrofitting comfort access) but I don't see much point in doing that.

[HCMW Adam]

You would disable the secondary sensors and leave them out entirely. they're not needed for anything unless you're trying to build an OBD2 compliant swap.

It will not work at all with an unmodified computer.

Thank you. That was very helpful.


I have an entire Z4 to pull parts from and am debating having the ECM tuned right now. My first goal is to get the engine in, running and enjoy it for a while. Change intake and exhaust and hopefully find some MILV's at a later date. There are several items that require ECM tuning and if I cross any one of them then I will likely have others done. Is this a correct list of things that would prevent the ECM from properly running the engine:

• Remove secondary 02 - might be able to cut and rotate and shoehorn OEM exhaust into my car. Custom exhaust manifolds if I have to.
• Change intake. Switching to N54 intake or fabricated intake requires tune for performance reasons, or is the ECM looking for DISA? Planning to use OEM intake to get car running. Change things later.
• Delete CAS - must use OEM key if not deleted. I have both keys. Bit of a pain to get the wiring out, but it is available.
• EKP controlling fuel pump.
• Variable speed Fan.

I have the engine and trans out of my E30. I have the engine and trans out of the Z4 with the complete wiring harness still attached. I have access to fabrication resources. I do not have time to make custom exhaust and things if I can get this to work without doing it.

[nando]

You would disable the secondary sensors and leave them out entirely. they're not needed for anything unless you're trying to build an OBD2 compliant swap.

It will not work at all with an unmodified computer.

[HCMW Adam]

I have a question about the N52 computer and the catalytic converters and the second set of O2 sensors. If the cats are removed and a smooth pipe installed in it's place will the second set of O2 sensors cause the engine to run poorly? Will this run properly with an un-modified ECM?

[moatilliatta]

I’d rather have balance over more power.

I could see some over braking happen, assuming.

What are you running for pads?

[hoveringuy]

Hows the car? Brakes balance? Putting down the power?

Who couldn't use an extra 50hp? That said, I'm happy with the reliability and drivability of the motor. I can mostly hang with a Cayman S or an E46 M3, but I get killed on the straight where aero and raw hp mean more.

I've got the Wilwood race kit front and rear and no hint of brake heat or fade after even 30 continuous minutes. Under hard braking, the car has tendency to develop a yaw in one direction or the other. Not sure what to make of it or how to correct it. Ironically, the brakes work so well that I need to learn to use them less...

The other cool thing is that I did 70 laps yesterday and this morning not a single drop of anything under the car, anywhere.

[moatilliatta]

Hows the car? Brakes balance? Putting down the power?

[hoveringuy]

I shaved another 1/2 second off my previous best. I thought I was going to do even better than that based on my Delta timer, but it just kept eroding as I drag-raced towards the Start-Finish line. You can see the delta timer lose multiple hundredths of a second as I can't keep up with my previous best from earlier in the morning. Even a 15 degree increase in temperature was impacting power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnI-N3ZgLLQ

[hoveringuy]

Another "M3 won't let me pass" video... (plus I have a big-dude passenger!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI7-jzxObkU

[D_Eclipse9916]

I struggled with getting VVT to work for the longest time and finally resolved it by extending the stop by a few mm. My issue was that it wasn't learning the stops and I had a persistent error. You should be able to manually turn the motor while tracking the position per the video.

https://youtube.com/shorts/pzpOTTT_IJ8

why the waterpump controller?

I have to look at the stops, I know one is adjustable but the other is not, so I hope max is adjustable to be slightly lower. It say 8 functions learned successfully so I didn't think there was an issue with learning the stops.

Waterpump controller was just reducing one more thing I couldnt "tune" myself. I wanted the ability to go 100% workload if need be and not be beholden to any tuning idiosyncrasies from a stock ECU. (such as F%&%ing 15% throttle and VVT issues).

[hoveringuy]

I struggled with getting VVT to work for the longest time and finally resolved it by extending the stop by a few mm. My issue was that it wasn't learning the stops and I had a persistent error. You should be able to manually turn the motor while tracking the position per the video.

https://youtube.com/shorts/pzpOTTT_IJ8

why the waterpump controller?

[D_Eclipse9916]

Additional question:
I dont have speed signal/brake signal/or radiator temp signal wired in. Do I need to add speed signal? Wondering if this is causing my issue with only 15.5% throttle available.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Figure more information is better than none:


$DATAID: 004 9PP0L 921S 0LA1S

$SGBD: MSV70 Version: 6.00

=== 08.06.2022 === 14:27:14

Aktueller Kilometerstand: 0

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570ACDA8D404D12B012830DD18737E02000000000000000000 000000

Error: 1(10) Nr: 52648 CDA8 Botschaft (Status KOMBI, 1B4) frequency: 1

error type: 4 (161 ) Timeout

Readines Flag: (17 ) Testbedingungen noch nicht erfüllt

error status: (34 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, noch nicht OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (49) Fehler wuerde das Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL) verursachen P-Code: U112B Kommunikationsverlust mit Status Instrumentenkombination F_LZ: 40environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Motordrehzahl 768.00 rpm

Steuergerät Innentemperatur 38.25 °C

Spannung Kl. 87 12.80 V

Status Motorsteuerung SYN_ENG_IGK_ON

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570ACDA064040000012830DD17737D02000000000000000000 000000 Error: 2(10) Nr: 52640 CDA0 Botschaft (Klemmenstatus, 130) frequency: 1

error type: 4 (161 ) Timeout

Readines Flag: (16 ) Testbedingungen erfüllt

error status: (35 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (48) Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)

P-Code: F_LZ: 40 environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Motordrehzahl 736.00 rpm

Steuergerät Innentemperatur 38.25 °C

Spannung Kl. 87 12.70 V

Status Motorsteuerung SYN_ENG_IGK_ON

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2DC364040000012830DD17027E02000000000000000000 000000 Error: 3(10) Nr: 11715 2DC3 Überwachung Klemme 15 frequency: 1

error type: 4 (29 ) CAS-Fehler

Readines Flag: (16 ) Testbedingungen erfüllt

error status: (35 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (48) Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)

P-Code: F_LZ: 40 environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Motordrehzahl 736.00 rpm

Motor Status IS

Spannung Kl. 87 12.80 V

Status Motorsteuerung SYN_ENG_IGK_ON

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2EFE64040480012830DD00B20281000000000000000000 000000 Error: 4(10) Nr: 12030 2EFE Elektrolüfter, Ansteuerung frequency: 1 error type: 4 (76 ) Leitungsunterbrechung

Readines Flag: (16 ) Testbedingungen erfüllt

error status: (35 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (48) Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)

P-Code: P0480 Motorlüfter 1 Steuerkreis - Fehlfunktion oder Leitungsunterbrechung F_LZ: 40environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Kühlmitteltemperatur Kühlerausgang -48.00 °C

Tastverhaeltnis E-Lüfter 69.53 %

Motor Status IS

Spannung Kl. 87 13.10 V

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2EEAD1042185012830DDFF005A6B000000000000000000 000000 Error: 5(10) Nr: 12010 2EEA Temperatursensor Kühleraustritt, Signal frequency: 1

error type: 1 (72 ) Kurzschluss nach Plus oder Leitungsunterbrechung

Readines Flag: (17 ) Testbedingungen noch nicht erfüllt

error status: (34 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, noch nicht OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (49) Fehler wuerde das Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL) verursachen P-Code: P2185 Motorkühlmitteltemperaturfühler 2 Schaltkreis - hoch F_LZ: 40

environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Kühlmitteltemperatur Kühlerausgang Rohwert 4.98 V

Kühlmitteltemperatur Kühlerausgang -48.00 °C

Umgebungstemperatur 19.50 °C

Ansauglufttemperatur 32.25 °C

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2A18D4041429012830DD2EE9027E000000000000000000 000000 Error: 6(10) Nr: 10776 2A18 DMTL, Heizung: Ansteuerung frequency: 1

error type: 4 (76 ) Leitungsunterbrechung

Readines Flag: (17 ) Testbedingungen noch nicht erfüllt

error status: (34 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, noch nicht OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (49) Fehler wuerde das Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL) verursachen P-Code: P1429 Diagnosemodul Tankleckage (DM-TL) Heizungssteuerkreis - Fehlfunktion oder Leitungsunterbrechung F_Lenvironment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Umgebungsdruck 976.44 hPa

Spannung Strommessung DMTL 4.55 V

Status Motorsteuerung SYN_ENG_IGK_ON

Spannung Kl. 87 12.80 V

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2DE258041407012830DD63636363000000000000000000 000000 Error: 7(10) Nr: 11746 2DE2 Krafstoff-Füllstandsgeber, rechts: Signal frequency: 1

error type: 8 (28 ) CAN Wert unplausibel

Readines Flag: (17 ) Testbedingungen noch nicht erfüllt

error status: (34 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, noch nicht OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (48) Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)

P-Code: P1407 Kraftstoff-Füllstandssignal 1 - Signal fehlerhaft F_LZ: 40 environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2DE158041408012830DD63636363000000000000000000 000000 Error: 8(10) Nr: 11745 2DE1 Krafstoff-Füllstandsgeber, links: Signal frequency: 1

error type: 8 (28 ) CAN Wert unplausibel

Readines Flag: (17 ) Testbedingungen noch nicht erfüllt

error status: (34 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, noch nicht OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (48) Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)

P-Code: P1408 Kraftstoff-Füllstandssignal 2 - Signal fehlerhaft F_LZ: 40 environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

Umgebungsdruck 99.00 kPa

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570A2E8464040000012830DD19550281000000000000000000 000000 Error: 9(10) Nr: 11908 2E84 Elektrische Kühlmittelpumpe, Kommunikation frequency: 1 error type: 4 (67 ) Kommunikationsfehler

Readines Flag: (16 ) Testbedingungen erfüllt

error status: (35 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (48) Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)

P-Code: F_LZ: 40 environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Motordrehzahl 800.00 rpm

Kühlmitteltemperatur OBD 45.00 °C

Status Motorsteuerung SYN_ENG_IGK_ON

Spannung Kl. 87 13.10 V

__________________________________________________ _____________________ TEL_ANTWORT: 570ACD94D404D101012830DD18747D02000000000000000000 000000 Error: 10(10) Nr: 52628 CD94 Botschaft (Außentemperatur/Relativzeit, 310) frequency: 1 error type: 4 (162 ) Timeout

Readines Flag: (17 ) Testbedingungen noch nicht erfüllt

error status: (34 ) Fehler momentan vorhanden, noch nicht OBD-entprellt

MIL - Status: (49) Fehler wuerde das Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL) verursachen

P-Code: U1101 Kommunikationsverlust mit Umgebungstemperatur/Relativzeit F_LZ: 40environment text / entry at 100072 km(1.)

Motordrehzahl 768.00 rpm

Steuergerät Innentemperatur 39.00 °C

Spannung Kl. 87 12.70 V

Status Motorsteuerung SYN_ENG_IGK_ON

[D_Eclipse9916]

I know I know first post but I have been following along this thread (And read all!). I am stuck with an issue that is plaguing my skillset and hoping to get some input. It is a race car so a ton of things were bypassed/deleted and I am starting to doubt what is able to be deleted.

2008 N52 Motor
2008 N52 Harness which I depinned for not needed pins (MSV80 with repinned/added wires for correct 2006 N52 MAF wiring)
N54 Intake Manifold/Throttle Body/MILVs/S54 headers
MSV70 ECU
Tecomotive Water Pump Controller
Fan on switch
Fuel Pumps on Switch
Brand new 2006 N52 Eccentric Shaft Sensor/Accelerator Pedal/MAF/Oxygen Sensors/Coils/Plugs

A little odd but I also did a ZF 8 speed auto transmission behind it. CAN seems to talk at least for Throttle/Torque/RPM. I wish I had CAN language for the MSV70 ZF 6 speed inputs to add current gear/next gear/etc but thats for another time to figure out.

The car starts up but it is stuck in Valvetronic failure mode. As you see, I tried a new Eccentric Shaft sensor, that did not fix it. I then tried another eccentric shaft out of a spare head I have. No change. It locks itself at full lift but will not give me an error code. When running relearn procedure it says function successful. I do note it goes to 180.2 vs I know the ECU doesnt like over 180. Would this cause the issue, is somehow the stops worn just enough that this is what is kicking it into limp mode (rough idle, full valvetronic advance, and only 15% throttle available)? There are no codes associated with it, and I had Bob at StageFP delete CAS/do any tuning needed to get it to fire, final tune is when I verify everything actually works. The ISTA will only show me 10 codes at a time it seems, with all of them emissions related (fuel tank leakage/rear o2 sensors/instrument cluster/Kombi etc).

Under ISTA valvetronic you can see it locked at full advance and under system status it says "VVTNOTL1", I assume this is a fault. Just odd its not showing up in faults itself.
Wondering if anyone had any insight?