ix vs others

[A Sucked Orange]

Soooo anyways....

I want to keep my 2ft of ground clearance, and the springs and billies, but Id like to improve my handling as much as possible. What I was thinking of doing was putting in a larger rear bar I have to stiffen up the rear.

[325ix]

Soooo anyways....

I want to keep my 2ft of ground clearance, and the springs and billies, but Id like to improve my handling as much as possible. What I was thinking of doing was putting in a larger rear bar I have to stiffen up the rear.

You could also put GC coil overs with tall springs in the rear.

[nando]

increasing the rear stiffness only is the wrong thing to do. it will make understeer worse, not better.

[325ix]

Increasing the front only with say, an ix touring sway bar wouldn't be a bad idea would it?

[nando]

its a good idea but they are hard to find

[A Sucked Orange]

You could also put GC coil overs with tall springs in the rear.

Yah but I kind of want to keep this car stock - been riding on coilovers for years and theres something to be said for a comfy ride.. The springs on this thing are like new to boot - it sits sky high. I think we need to get a Colorado iX snow drive going some time this winter - a lot of the guys in austria and switzerland seem to have a blast.

[Jaxx_]

increasing the rear stiffness only is the wrong thing to do. it will make understeer worse, not better.

Increasing the front only with say, an ix touring sway bar wouldn't be a bad idea would it?

jesus christ. both softer springs in the rear and a bigger front bar will increase understeer and rear grip.

[nando]

if you follow internet logic, yes. But in reality, no.

[Jaxx_]

if you follow internet logic, yes. But in reality, no.

okay nando. I'll be sure to get rid of my rear bar that way I can go back to more oversteer.

[325ix]

jesus christ. both softer springs in the rear and a bigger front bar will increase understeer and rear grip.

He said increasing only the rear will do that.

[nando]

okay nando. I'll be sure to get rid of my rear bar that way I can go back to more oversteer.

Oh, you mean just like all the E30 race cars that do exactly that?

[Jaxx_]

He said increasing only the rear will do that.

Correct. He said that increasing the rear spring rate will cause understeer.

Oh, you mean just like all the E30 race cars that do exactly that?

yes, because you can have a direct comparison between a full race setup without a rear bar to an e30 that is bone stock. Honestly, I think you're hopeless Nando. E30 race cars also need to tune transitive situations--so understeer can translate to faster times.

Proper suspension setup and feel depends on a number of factors... amount of power to put down, driving style, corner weights, tires and others.

Spring rates, dampeners, swaybars, and tires ALL effect the feel of the car. And yes, I'll admit that just because something feels faster doesn't mean it is. However, running no sway relies on other data -- spring stiffness & dampener stiffness are generally the most important. Because racecars (lol) don't use a rear sway doesn't mean that the rear is soft. Once you understand this relationship then you might want to start talking about suspension setup. But as it stand the reason theoretical relationships with suspensions components are generalized is because the laws of physics.

Here are the facts on these relationships...
Going from understeer to oversteer:
no rear sway -> small rear sway -> big rear sway.
big front sway -> small front sway.
soft rear springs -> hard rear springs.
hard front springs -> soft front springs.
soft rear dampeners -> hard rear dampeners.
hard front dampeners -> soft front dampeners.

with these relationships you can often predict direction, BUT NOT MAGNITUDE. For example: going to a bigger rear sway and also getting stiffer rear springs will result in more oversteer tendencies. You will not know precisely how much.


and let me be clear... oversteer and understeer don't tell you how fast a car is.

[nando]

Im hopeless? Lol. Okay then. Let me know when you have actual experience setting up an ix for tarmac

And i never said that you should remove the rear bar. What you've posted are generalizations, not facts.

Here are the facts - no amount of rear suspension changes, much less a rear bar only, are going to reduce understeer by themselves. Why? Take some front tire measurements during an hpde or autox. The outsides of the fronts will be overheating, while the insides stay cool. The rear tires will also remain cool. How many tire temp measurements do you have i wonder? I have a whole log book full of them.

The best way to eliminate this is to significantly stiffen the front, and increase both camber and caster. Getting heat into the rear is always a problem, but i prefer a stock rear bar. Front camber needs to be -3* to evenly heat the tires, while stock rear settings are good.

reducing front weight helps a lot too. But if you go far down this path, you will soon realize that eliminating all understeer is not a good idea. The car becomes twitchy and unstable at the limit. As it turns out, it's just part of how awd works. From there, driving adjustments are needed for further improvement.

[matt0300]

Why wouldn't u want to remove it? U just said e30 racecars don't have one. Why would u say that if it wouldn't improve handling?

[matt0300]

And tire temp really? Again that goes back to grip. Plus it all depends on what tires ur running. On slicks u want them to get hotter but on normal all weather tires u wouldn't.