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    #76
    Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
    this is my assumption. here are some pix of e46 compared to e34 axles that i have already posted earlier in this thread. i think its pretty safe to assume based on the comparisons already made earlier in the thread and nisse's findings that x5 and e46 axles are pretty similiar. in both cases, e34 is on top and e46 is on the bottom.


    driver:


    pax:



    this one was posted already too. this is e34 axle on the left and e30 on the right. that is the length difference of the center shaft between the two.



    my point for posting this one is that the difference between the center section of the e30 axle and e46 is a whopping 3". this means that the axles are probably about 1.5" too long on each side. even with modified center section of the e34 axle, they are going to sit outboard more and will certainly need to be shortened.
    Can you lay out all three types of axles in order? E30, E34, E46, so that we can have all of them in one photo?

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
      NICE!

      That's the E34 oil pan and diff, right?
      What mount arms are on that engine? It looks like you could just pop mounts into place and have the engine sit on them.

      I think that the bumper will have to be removed. The front face of the sump will be EXTREMELY close to the center "tube" of the iX steering rack. Interference between the spool valve assembly on the rack and the diff can be dealt with by tilting the rack forward, as long as the engine mount arm is designed/built/modified to allow for that.

      The critical dimension, as you note, is the longitudinal distance from the rear face of the cylinder head to the front face of the oil sump.

      I'm not above carving lightly on the sump to put the engine far enough forward. I also think that I could build a custom crossmember that would keep the control arms in the same locations, but move the rack forward an inch. Moving the rack forward would change the ackerman (which isn't great on an iX to begin with), but would not change the bump steer.

      As long as everything can be made to fit, don't waste time worrying about where the axle centerline is. The CV joints won't notice the difference.

      As far as axles go, due to the different lengths, the inners are going to have to match the oil pan and diff. The differing lengths of the shaft on the right side inner joint and the constant track width of the E30 means that the same axle shafts won't work with different oil pan/diff/inner joint setups. Interesting.

      I have an E46 diff and an E53 diff... I can see what's necessary to pull a side gear out of each to compare the splines.
      The Quaife for a Z3 1.9 fits the front of an E53, including the axles, AIUI. It's probable that BMW uses the same side gear spline for ALL 168mm applications, front and rear.

      That means that a RWD output flange may work on the left side of the front diff. Obviously a matching flange for the right side would have to be custom made... but once that was done, axles could use the RWD 86mm CV joints (at least at the inner end) and maybe be more modular.
      Yes, E34 pan and diff (and all other parts as well)
      Its RWD E34 M50 mount arms, well you probably could with spacer between the block and arms but the engine will sit too high. Maybe you can make custom spacer plates with new mounting holes that sits higher to mount the E34 RWD arms.
      I havent come that far yet :)

      Yeah theres no room for a bumper, and it seems that when the engine is in the position it needs to bee there are no interference between diff/rack and CVs/subframe.

      After more testing this weekend with alot firewall massage etc i think you have to hit the firewall a bit to make this happen if you dont want to mod the pan, subframe and steering bits.
      I have hit it pretty hard now and i also have to cut and massage some small pieces just behind the transfer case to make that fit in there now when the engine sits like 1 inch more (or more) back.

      One of the problems was getting the trans onto the engine, you cant tilt the engine enough or lower it wnough to be able to but the gearbox on (atlest not eith the TC attached)
      Thats where i got pissed off and started hitting the firewall with a hammer :D I think its enough now i just have to cut a little just next to where the TC sits.

      Maybe you could get around the gearbox problem by lowering the subframe when mounting the gearbox on the engine, im gonna try that if the wirewall massage isnt enough.

      Im using all E34 parts btw, could be diffrent with modded E30 tc or something like that. Gearbox and tc dimensions are pretty much the same though so it wont be any major diffrences.

      One step closer! I will continue tomorrow! Have a few pics but there isnt much to see really.


      I belive E34, E46 and E53 share the same spline in the diff.
      E30 325ix M50 turbo 7 spd DCT 4wd 840awhp @ 31 psi.
      E30 M50 6 spd 764whp @ 24psi.
      E30 M20 6 spd 675whp.

      Comment


        #78
        I'm expecting that I'll make the radiator core support removable, and unbolt the crossmember. Then I'll be able to fly the entire powertrain into position in unit using a cherry picker or overhead hoist, and just bolt the crossmember up underneath it.

        If you didn't try to tilt the engine, would you have had to beat the firewall?

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
          From my thread on E30Tech:

          E30 pan:
          Bellhousing face to axle centerline: 10 1/8"
          Bellhousing face to front of sump: 14"

          E53 V8 pan:
          BH face to axle CL: 10 3/4"
          BH face to front of sump: 14 5/8"

          E53 I6 pan:
          BH to axle CL: 11 1/4
          BH to sump: 15

          In any case, both of the E53 pans will push the engine somewhat further back than the M20 pan.
          Because of the contouring of the E30 firewall and the fact that the right side of the firewall is further back in the car than the left side where the brake booster mounts, I think there will be plenty of clearance for the 24V engine.

          I think someone posted the same dimensions for the E34 pan, but I didn't find them skimming my other thread.
          Originally posted by nando View Post

          BH to CL of axle:
          ~11 3/8"
          BH to front of sump:
          15 1/4"
          Hmmm...

          So if the E34 pan ends up putting the back of the cylinder head just a smidge into the firewall, the E53 V8 pan should work on the right side.

          Comment


            #80
            Where you have it is further back than the m20 was. If you want it mounted like the m20, it can't clear the rack. Using a getrag 260 and e30 transfercase it will screw up the shifter and trans mount because everything moves back an inch. You're using a zf so maybe that doesn't matter to you, lots will have to be custom anyway. :)

            There are benefits to moving it back of course (better weight distribution, keep the stock rack). But everything is a compromise, you just have to decide for yourself what you are willing to sacrifice...

            The rwd e34 arms are close but yeah, they are too long. There is no room to fit a mount.
            Build thread

            Bimmerlabs

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
              I'm expecting that I'll make the radiator core support removable, and unbolt the crossmember. Then I'll be able to fly the entire powertrain into position in unit using a cherry picker or overhead hoist, and just bolt the crossmember up underneath it.

              If you didn't try to tilt the engine, would you have had to beat the firewall?
              Yeah thats a good idea. Not sure, maybe a little! I can measure in a few days hopefully when the engine is bolted in "for good"

              One other thing that could help is mounting the trans without the TC and then mount the TC after, but in that case you probably would have to cut open the space in front of where th shifter hole is so you can reach the two top bolts :P
              Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
              Hmmm...

              So if the E34 pan ends up putting the back of the cylinder head just a smidge into the firewall, the E53 V8 pan should work on the right side.
              Yes but the X5 diff is bigger so you probably have rack issues :( I can try if i find a cheap i6 X5 pan later on!
              Originally posted by nando View Post
              Where you have it is further back than the m20 was. If you want it mounted like the m20, it can't clear the rack. Using a getrag 260 and e30 transfercase it will screw up the shifter and trans mount because everything moves back an inch. You're using a zf so maybe that doesn't matter to you, lots will have to be custom anyway. :)

              There are benefits to moving it back of course (better weight distribution, keep the stock rack). But everything is a compromise, you just have to decide for yourself what you are willing to sacrifice...

              The rwd e34 arms are close but yeah, they are too long. There is no room to fit a mount.
              Yes its further back, yeah i have to make some custom stuff :)
              Yeah the firewall beating wasnt very fun to do but i really wanted the engine in there :D

              Thats right, the engine sits pretty much at the correct hight (same as the M20 that is) so the mounts wont work bolt on. Maybe with some adapter plates but i probably just make my own.
              E30 325ix M50 turbo 7 spd DCT 4wd 840awhp @ 31 psi.
              E30 M50 6 spd 764whp @ 24psi.
              E30 M20 6 spd 675whp.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Nisse Järnet View Post

                Yes but the X5 diff is bigger so you probably have rack issues :( I can try if i find a cheap i6 X5 pan later on!
                Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I can solve that.

                Now that I'm working again, I can afford to buy stuff and try it out.

                The E53 I6 pan has a slightly longer sump front to back than the E53 V8 pan. With the sump all the way forward against the rack, the bellhousing face will be about 3/8" (~10mm) further forward with the V8 pan than with the I6 pan.
                I know that doesn't help you I6 guys, but it's nice for me to know ;)

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                  Can you lay out all three types of axles in order? E30, E34, E46, so that we can have all of them in one photo?

                  unfortunately, i can't will. some of those photos are pretty old. i chucked a good deal of the e46 axle in the trash a long time ago. i think i have the center section and the inside joint. the outside section is probably part of a new honda by now.

                  nisse: is there a possibility that you could install the e34 axles when you have time? i think the best way would be to remove the front springs on both sides. this way you can collapse the front suspension fully and rotate the front axle to see if the axles bind at the slip joint. this is another minor concern i have been thinking about.
                  Last edited by flyboyx; 03-11-2014, 08:06 AM.
                  sigpic
                  Gigitty Gigitty!!!!

                  88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
                  92 Mtech 2 cabrio alpinweiss 770 code
                  88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
                  88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
                  87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
                  12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

                  Comment


                    #84
                    why do you think the axles would bind? because of the slight length difference?
                    Build thread

                    Bimmerlabs

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                      Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I can solve that.

                      Now that I'm working again, I can afford to buy stuff and try it out.

                      The E53 I6 pan has a slightly longer sump front to back than the E53 V8 pan. With the sump all the way forward against the rack, the bellhousing face will be about 3/8" (~10mm) further forward with the V8 pan than with the I6 pan.
                      I know that doesn't help you I6 guys, but it's nice for me to know ;)
                      Man, thats unfair :D
                      Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                      unfortunately, i can't will. some of those photos are pretty old. i chucked a good deal of the e46 axle in the trash a long time ago. i think i have the center section and the inside joint. the outside section is probably part of a new honda by now.

                      nisse: is there a possibility that you could install the e34 axles when you have time? i think the best way would be to remove the front springs on both sides. this way you can collapse the front suspension fully and rotate the front axle to see if the axles bind at the slip joint. this is another minor concern i have been thinking about.
                      Yes i will do that, not sure when but soon hopefully :)
                      E30 325ix M50 turbo 7 spd DCT 4wd 840awhp @ 31 psi.
                      E30 M50 6 spd 764whp @ 24psi.
                      E30 M20 6 spd 675whp.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by flyboyx View Post
                        unfortunately, i can't will. some of those photos are pretty old. i chucked a good deal of the e46 axle in the trash a long time ago. i think i have the center section and the inside joint. the outside section is probably part of a new honda by now.
                        You still have the complete E34 axles, right? Can I borrow them this spring or summer?

                        I'm willing to throw down for junkyard E46 and E53 axles (and maybe an extra set of E30 axles) so that I can get a photo and numbers for all of them.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by nando View Post
                          why do you think the axles would bind? because of the slight length difference?

                          the axles are the same really, but the center section: carrier/oil pan/diff are a little wider. i think it was about 1/2 to 3/4".
                          sigpic
                          Gigitty Gigitty!!!!

                          88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
                          92 Mtech 2 cabrio alpinweiss 770 code
                          88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
                          88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
                          87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
                          12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Ah i see. I think it will be ok, there was even talk of the shafts being too short on an extremely low ix.

                            In other news, my getrag 260 is finally landed from Germany :)
                            Build thread

                            Bimmerlabs

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                              You still have the complete E34 axles, right? Can I borrow them this spring or summer?

                              I'm willing to throw down for junkyard E46 and E53 axles (and maybe an extra set of E30 axles) so that I can get a photo and numbers for all of them.

                              man....those things are so hard to come by. i know you are an honest guy, but i will have a hard time letting them out of my hands. i would be happy to take any dimension and photo you like and post them up! :)
                              Last edited by flyboyx; 03-11-2014, 09:38 PM.
                              sigpic
                              Gigitty Gigitty!!!!

                              88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
                              92 Mtech 2 cabrio alpinweiss 770 code
                              88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
                              88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
                              87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
                              12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Hey, it only took me 18 months to find mine, at the cost of a complete e30 ix drivetrain :p
                                Last edited by nando; 03-11-2014, 09:42 PM.
                                Build thread

                                Bimmerlabs

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