24V AWD Swap Knowledge Base

[King Mufasa]

M54 is light :)

+1 and only 20lb lighter than E90 NXX and most of its reduce weight is from its exhaust manifold

[nando]

N52 is lighter.. Theres way more to it than the manifold. Aluminum bolts, hollow cam, etc. And the bed plate design is much stiffer (n52 stock redline is 7,000; M54 will shake to bits at that speed). The M54 was origionally designed as an iron block (M50).

My goal is 7500-8000 rpm, ~280-300bhp and less weight than the m20.

[King Mufasa]

as stated yes its lighter.. and yes its lighter do to other factors. No its not built for high power its built as a cruiser. School, work, kids, events. Turbo version is a different story.. but heavier so pointless in terms of weight.


you cannot even bore it the cylinder are AluSil bores, why would you want to stress a such a unrepairable block? at 6k a piston in a gasoline engine is subjected to nearly 10 tons of force every 0.02 second as repeated explosions heat the metal to more than 600 degrees..

I like to see how these light weight reduced rods hold repeated abuse of a 8k rpm..

..Valve tronic technology varies the valve lift rather than throttle opening thus the 7k rpm, know how to control this for you planed 7500-8krpm?

They had to use steels inlays at the bed plate or the crank would turn the entire bed plate to shit, as the magnesium bed plate would not hold up..

was their not a solution for this so called shaking to bits m54?

what is Nisse RPM set at?

[6A LDY]

Sorry if this has been answered before but what is the oil capacity of the frankpans vs stock and has anybody run any sort of secondary storage/overflow?

[Nisse Järnet]

Is that 700hp getting to your head...

720awhp if I may, haha yes maybe :D

[Nisse Järnet]

You could replace the 3.0 crank with a 2.5 or 2.8 and it should be good :)
But the N52 is interesting, too bad no one put a lot of power in it yet.

[nando]

as stated yes its lighter.. and yes its lighter do to other factors. No its not built for high power its built as a cruiser. School, work, kids, events. Turbo version is a different story.. but heavier so pointless in terms of weight.

so? it makes more HP than the S52, stock, and weighs significantly less. I wouldn't say an engine with a 7000rpm factory redline is a "cruiser" - for the vanilla flavored inline 6, it's actually one of the highest strung engines BMW has built. Even though it's torque curve is even wider than the M54.

if it seems like a cruiser, consider how long the gear ratios in modern BMWs have become, due to strict emissions and fuel economy requirements. I know lots of guys here wish they had a 2.0 final drive ratio and a 3 speed transmission, an being able to go 75mph in 2nd gear is nice, but it really hamstrings the engine. Especially in a modern 2 ton pig of a car that they have all been shoehorned into.

you cannot even bore it the cylinder are AluSil bores, why would you want to stress a such a unrepairable block? at 6k a piston in a gasoline engine is subjected to nearly 10 tons of force every 0.02 second as repeated explosions heat the metal to more than 600 degrees..

Why would you need to bore out the block? and what's your point about forces at 6krpm? the stock redline is 7k. a typical margin of safety in engineering is 20% - I'm talking about less than a 10% bump, which I already know it can do without issue.

I like to see how these light weight reduced rods hold repeated abuse of a 8k rpm..

They are modern cracked forged steel rods like those used in the S54. If my M20 can tag a 7500rpm redline with used 15 year old S52 rods and a random eta crank, I don't see why a factory built, modern designed engine can't do a little more.

..Valve tronic technology varies the valve lift rather than throttle opening thus the 7k rpm, know how to control this for you planed 7500-8krpm?

If you knew how valvetronic worked, you wouldn't be asking that question. All it is doing is rotating a 3rd cam that varies the rocker ratio. RPM really has little to do with it. One issue could be the hydraulic lifters bleeding out, but those could be replaced with solid lifters & shims.

They had to use steels inlays at the bed plate or the crank would turn the entire bed plate to shit, as the magnesium bed plate would not hold up..

was their not a solution for this so called shaking to bits m54?

Uh, that's the point. The bed plate design is significantly stiffer than the old 2-bolt main design (otherwise, it wouldn't rev out like it does). of course there are steel inlays to support the bearings - neither aluminum nor magnesium have the strength requirements that steel can provide. The caps on the M54 also have steel inlays (they might even be steel?). The point is, the bed plate design is a significant improvement, and the N52 block was designed from scratch to be aluminum/magnesium. the M54 was an iron block design changed to aluminum, which is why they have the issues with "high" RPM (er, 6400rpm).

You can get a crank damper for the M54 and do some stuff with the oil pump, but all that might do is get you close to the *stock* N52 redline. And without something done to the cams, you're not going to make much power above the stock redline anyway.

To me, the point of an N/A motor is the responsiveness and being able to wind it out. having the effective redline of a stock M20 doesn't do it for me.

Look, I'm not arguing that the only engine worth considering is the N52 - the M54 is pretty nice too, and it's good to see people moving on from the M50. But it's pretty clear that people don't understand the differences. I'm pretty sure the N52 is lighter than the M54 by more than 20lbs as well (as I said, there's way more to it than the exhaust manifolds, the entire thing was designed from the start to be light weight).

The M54 is definitely an easier swap, since it's so similar to the m50. N52 hasn't been done by anyone, and there are hurdles like the oil pan design & flywheel to deal with. Ix swaps are difficult enough. I'm sure we will see some M54s in the ix soon enough!

I don't think the N54 is that much heavier either - and even if it is, it definitely can make more power than the S54 while being considerably lighter. I'm just not interested in Turbos. :p

[nando]

You could replace the 3.0 crank with a 2.5 or 2.8 and it should be good :)
But the N52 is interesting, too bad no one put a lot of power in it yet.

There's somebody who built a race version of one, with locked cams and standalone and a bunch of other stuff. It put out over 300hp IIRC and I think the redline was 8k. Personally, I wouldn't want to lock the cams - one of the draws is not needing a throttle. "upgrading" to ITBs doesn't make sense when you can just have a short runner intake and no throttle at all.

There's also a supercharger but it's quite expensive and has some limitations (no intercooler, not enough fuel, limited boost, etc). If you want boost, the N52 doesn't really make sense to me.

[stonea]

S38!

Unfortunately I think this might be out of my price range, lol.

M54 is light :)

The M54 is definitely an easier swap, since it's so similar to the m50. N52 hasn't been done by anyone, and there are hurdles like the oil pan design & flywheel to deal with. Ix swaps are difficult enough. I'm sure we will see some M54s in the ix soon enough!

The reason I chose the M54 for the ix swap (other than the fact I had one) was because it was light. Also with Andrew's harness adapter the swap is really easy. I love the m54 in the Z3 and think it would be even better in the e30, but I'm tempted to save my low milage M54 for a e46 touring and I've also developed a little crush on the M30 in the mean time.

[Nisse Järnet]

I want to know what happens if you put forged internals in a N52 and boost it to 800hp :)
I might transfer my internals to a M54 block and head I have laying around in my garage..

[nando]

you could do that.. or, you could just buy an N54, which is basically a boosted N52 (no valvetronic though, and smaller valves, less aggressive cam).

I'm not sure there's too many 800hp N54s though. lots in the 400-500 range though.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The reason I chose the M54 for the ix swap (other than the fact I had one) was because it was light. Also with Andrew's harness adapter the swap is really easy. I love the m54 in the Z3 and think it would be even better in the e30, but I'm tempted to save my low milage M54 for a e46 touring and I've also developed a little crush on the M30 in the mean time.

I don't understand why people like the M30 so much. I had one in my '92 E34. It made decent power for the time it was designed/built, but it's pretty low by modern standards. It does make more low end torque than the M20, but coming from Chevy & Caddy V8's, it does not to me make *good* low end torque, or even just good torque.

The port flow is poor, the offset splayed valve chamber design is horrific, the engine as a whole has terrible knock resistance... etc.

It also doesn't actually fit into an E30 engine bay. For the effort involved in an M30 swap, a swapper could install an M60 and have 100 more horsepower with essentially the same weight.

On the plus side...
It's smooth, sounds good and runs well forever. Mileage is meaningless as the engine *never* actually wears out. Mine had 260k miles on it and still had 180 psi of compression in all 6 pots.

An M54 would be a GREAT swap into an iX... drop some of the front drive assembly's pounds off the front tires.

you could do that.. or, you could just buy an N54, which is basically a boosted N52 (no valvetronic though, and smaller valves, less aggressive cam).

I'm not sure there's too many 800hp N54s though. lots in the 400-500 range though.

Doesn't the N52 have the hybrid magnesium/aluminum block? The N54's block is straight aluminum in order to be strong enough to deal with boost.

Do N52 cams fit into an N54 head? ;)

Isn't the max power available from a DI engine still fuel limited?

[nando]

No, n52 cams wont fit into n54 head. But maybe, the n52 head could fit on an n54 block.

Pretty sure its not the magnesium. I think the n54 has steel cylinder liners.

N52 isnt DI. The N54 is, and i dont know that they are really fuel limited. The guys making more than 500hp typically run e85 or similar. I dont know what the limits are, its not my thing. :p

[King Mufasa]

key note:
BMW states the Valvetronic has allowed the engine to reach a top engine speed of 7k rpm it is controlled by a 64bit computer. Although its efficiency is decrease above 6k upgraded springs is recommended $$

Superior bed plate?
please state where BMW states its superior to its predecessor? if its an assumption from the construction well I respect that. But facts are required. a lot of guys here including myself, "pocket change" is riding on facts.

BMW’s project manager for I-6 Andreas Welter stated when asked "if a n52 turbo possible", quote

"In the case of the magnesium-aluminum block, Welter says, “Right now, the crankcase-stress of the turbocharged engine is above the limit of the aluminum/magnesium crankcase.”

meaning N54 turbo is 340+hp stock is already over the limit of a n52. Correct BMW if they are wrong..

Although BMW refers to both engines as "cousins" their is a reason why BMW had 2 different options. N54 is not just a "its just a boosted N52"

800hp N52? I would not advise that, For a naturally aspirated greatness I do highly recommend it YES :) but should watch out for the aluminum head bolts breaking reports, I hope it was just a bad day at the plant ..


"If my M20 can tag a 7500rpm redline with used 15 year old S52 rods and a random eta crank, I don't see why a factory built, modern designed engine can't do a little more"

This is an assumption.. but why not? am all for N/A goodness :)

"There's also a supercharger but it's quite expensive and has some limitations (no intercooler, not enough fuel, limited boost, etc)."

Limited boost? of coarse and I wonder why? top Power was ~285 for $4k..

Am all for new things but first comes trial and error it return facts

[King Mufasa]

For the M54 you have to use damper from BMW M52, 2,0 2,5 2,8.
or ATI-damper $

To get to 7500 rpm you use a s50 B3.2 oil pump

or a $250 pump fix
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