Possibly Leaving e30s for a bit after today (turbo gasket problems)

[Kozworth]

I rebuilt my b25 from the ground up hoping to have something reliable, doubled my budget, and as of today the car needs to go under the knife, after probably running a total of 1.5 miles since November 2012.

The car is an oringed block with all new seals/bearings/rod bolts, all in spec. Head is a freshly resurfaced and pressure tested 885, ALL new rocker arms. Setup is a h1c, whodwho ms, tial bov/wg, fmic, gm iat and afm delete, aem wb sensor, on and on and on.

However, this is the history of the car. A few months ago I had a leaking manifold, I got pissed and ripped the car down the road. Did not hit boost, but on the way back, the car popped the headgasket. The car sat for a while, but adventually put on a resurfed head with goetze, new manifold.

I let the car then idle and bled the coolant out. The car idled for 40 minutes about 2-3 times with no coolant spikes or issues.

I took the car down the road, and it pulled insane. I never really realized it, i turned around, and then one last pull. On the last one I did a 1-2-3 pull, cruise then tried from 3rd to see how it ran. The car really didnt seem to explode steam like the first gasket blew did, but I did notice the battery light came on and the car had died.

When I looked outside, there is coolant literally everywhere. Its all over the block, its covered the whole chassis underneath, and even on the tail lights. When I crank, it does not have compression and has a continuous cranking noise.

Now my question really is this. Since the car had a new head, best oem gasket you can get, coolant was bled, head was torqued with a snapon torque wrench 22 ftlbs 90* 90*, and still popped, what would you guys look for?

I am no longer in a position to put even a few hundred dollars into the car (I am moving out the 1st and dont really have the time/space/want to rebuild the car a 3rd time). If you guys can help me figure out what is the cause of this, I might stick around the e30 world. Otherwise, I will probably just make it an na b25, sell the turbo, sell the car, and get my friends mk2 and swap a vr into it. Atleast I will have some excitement working on something that shouldnt die the second I take it down the road.

[ak-]

Are you driving it un-tuned?
I really feel bad for you from all the threads you've made with basically the same problem.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Cracked block?

[Kozworth]

I dont think the block is cracked. The reason behind this is the shop I took it to is very reputable (they resurf our heads when we send them out) and should have caught any imperfections in the block when it was honed/oringed. They have been around for 30+ years, and deal with boosted hondas on a day to day basis.

The history behind the block is this. The eta in the car from factory drove awesome, I was just saving money to turbo it. So I pulled the eta, and oringed/honed the block that had no issues whatso ever. However, I was stupid and lost some rod caps and scrapped the idea of a 2.7i, and pulled the guts from my spare b25 engine and put it into the oringed eta. So the block should be perfectly fine.

ak-. I took the eta out in november, and basically put all I could give both financially and physically into this car. I have spend god knows how many hours on this thing, there were multiple times that I came after work/school and worked on the car into 5am, then went to work at 7am. It was pretuned for the injectors and the setup by whodwho.

However, its not like the car ran excessively lean or anything. Underboost it seemed to run rich, but with all the gauges, I could assume something might have popped up that I have missed. But either way, the best that I could tell is the car would drive phenominal and be so much fun, but when coming back to the shop something would give.

Even if the tune wasn't 100%, there is a few issues with that. 1) how would it have popped that quick even with an oringed block? 2) I wouldnt even be able to drive to a tuner and 3) I wouldnt even be able to afford a tune at the expense or risk that it would still fail.

If I had the drive, I would weld up the head, but honestly cannot afford it. I am really hoping it is something basic that I had overlooked so I do not have to let this car die and go to driving an m42 misfiring e36 everyday. :(

[ak-]

Sucks. Did you say you do or don't have your gauges wired up? If so, what were the AFRs on boost and what boost level is it set at?

To answer or give insight to your questions:
1. Can't stop physics man. If something's wrong, something is just wrong. Are you using Metric Blues? Re-used from previous build?
2. Whodwho pretunes your MS to your injector sizing so you can get to your tuner and putter around in town, not to pin the throttle everywhere! My friend's N/A 2.7i has a base tuned map and it idles and drives nicely, but is questionably lean WOT after 4800 RPM according to the AFR gauge.
3. Turbo systems are simple. As long as the engine is healthy, put together properly, and tuned conservatively nothing should go wrong.

Don't give up. I've been fed up to the point of wanting to crush my car, but everything can always be figured out.

[Kozworth]

Here is an interesting video of today. However, DISREGARD MY STUPIDNESS. Boost at the lowest.. I Just didnt want to get into explaining that the wg was not hooked up to the mbc so it was set at 8psi.

I am using arps that I got brand new. Maybe there is a different torque spec for arps? But from what I read, its just the same as oem. 22ftlbs 90 90. Ask me how I know.. ive done a few head gaskets yet this one does not want to ever stay.

As for the tune.. Could be pushing it. I mean, the tach still doesnt work or speedo. However, in the video, and much like the first time the gasket popped, it seems when the car is in 3rd and steadily being pushed something goes. But reving the piss out of 1st and 2nd doesnt seem to phase it.

Also, look at the wideband during my 3rd gear pull. Its super rich, im glad my friend filmed that. Also, the rev at the end, I didnt do that, it was the car itself somehow. When the video ends, I am basically in the middle of saying "something broke"because I saw the battery light on as if the car had stalled out. However, it was not like my first blown gasket, there was hardly any smoke and it seems coolant all over the body as opposed to in the intake tubing and whatnot.

http://s912.photobucket.com/user/akoz96/media/076F53E2-B49C-4DBA-A565-62A25F8D02BB-1396-0000020E688C1E2F_zps8ae25bf4.mp4.html

[LJ851]

detonation.

It really sounds like you might be in over your head.

[Kozworth]

detonation.

It really sounds like you might be in over your head.

I am in over my head. I was before I even got this project started. However, it was my first engine rebuild/turbo project, not to mention first project in general. Everyone has to start somewhere.

As for detonation... I know that the afr was rich and I was running 91. So the only issue I know would be too advanced timing. I have no clue what the timing was. I guess it could have been detonating and I cant hear since its open downpipe... can you hear it in the video?

[MF DOOM]

driving an m42 misfiring e36 everyday. :(

Theres your problem.





Im in over my head 100% of the time with my car. :up:


No data logs? What do your plugs look like? Any damage to pistons last time this happened? Either way I would definitely get the car to a tuner. It would be near impossible to tune a car without being with the car. Every engine is different. So take a day and throw a new head gasket on'er and get it tuned

[93supercoupe]

you defenitly need to be checking ur plugs, and you need to know where ur timing is. And for the short amount of time you can see the WB o2, it was over 12.5.

I typically go for 11.5-11.7 on boosted pump gas cars. NA i go for 13-13.5WOT

As far as popping gaskets that quick, i would look into the way the orings are layed in, or if they sit too low or too high in certian areas. And of course check for the noraml 885 head cracks

Regardless of all that, timing is everything with any tune. download tunerstudio and connect to ur MS and see where your at. There are sooooooo many holset setups out there that u could copy someones timing map and be really close, then just read ur plugs to verify.

But remember that too little of timing can be just as dangerous as too much, so dont go in and just pull 20degress and call it good. Read ur plugs.

[Kozworth]

Hopefully I will be pulling the head today. I will be looking for any similarities in the blown gaskets.

I read a lot on dentonation... I feel like its a more plausible idea that I got the wrong plugs as opposed to a faulty oring from a shop that does this regularly.

[kamotors]

bad/overly aggressive tune can blow the gasket within a couple pulls. for example I got 1 4th gear on my over aggressive tune before the gasket popped......but it was really fast so it was worth it lol.

it only takes a day to pull the head and replace the gasket and is no reason to get rid of the car.

[Good & Tight]

As others have mentioned, you need to get it tuned. Driving normal to get to a dyno will not blow the HG. Doing WOT pulls without knowing were your afr's or timing is at will blow the HG instantly.

[LJ851]

I have no clue what the timing was.

I was guessing this.

Timing (and AFR) makes or breaks a turbo setup.

Inspect and regasket the head if all is ok. Then take it to a tuner that knows what they are doing and have build a nice, safe tune so you can DD the car with confidence.

Remember, you are on the steep end of the learning curve, it does get easier if you pay attention.

[wazzu70]

These threads make me sad. Mainly because no matter how often they happen, someone will beat the piss out of an untuned motor and destroy it.

Im not sure why people think its ok to beat on/push a car without even verifying everything is ok in the logs?

A standalone that is plug and play is not tuned, its just got the parameters set up so all you have to do is modify the maps to fit your engine. Hopefully people aren't selling them as plug in and go setups!