Possibly Leaving e30s for a bit after today (turbo gasket problems)

[Kozworth]

Well, its mostly my fault. But first time It blew it was 100% my issue since the turbo setup was not in key. This time, I know the pnp was tuned for my basic setup and that it would be fine tuned, but realized its not perfect. I assumed that it would be ok for a few mild pulls. In both cases the gasket blew under a long pull under 3rd gear, assuming the load was very great on the engine.

Here is what I had discovered today.

Left gasket is a klinger gasket which popped the 1st time, and the one on the right is an oem goetze that popped this time. Cylinders on klinger that blew are 4/5 while goetze are 4/5/6

Klinger

Goetze



Under inspection, the block does not seem to have any visible cracks or issues with the copper oringing. The head during first gasket was not used this time, and this head was skimmed and pressure tested. This head does not have any visible cracks.

All plugs have the tan color to them. They are the m20 oem replacement plugs. Since they are already used, i figured I might as well get cooler plugs.

I really do not know anything about dynos, but what I am confused is the car must be ran on a dyno to get a data log and figure out how to tune the car. If my car blew under a steady 3rd gear pull, hardly hitting boost, then whats stopping the gasket from failing on a dyno? It seems that if I towed the car and had it on a dyno that since she popp'ed two so easily that it would be pretty certain that a 3rd would pop.

Even if I did the gasket, would there be an issue with me granny shifting the car to its new location? I just do not even have the money for the car to get tuned at this point, but the car must leave the location its at by the 1st.
Besides that, why would 4-5 cylinders seem to blow first? anything to check? The head gasket isn't too bad of a job, its just I am getting lost for inspiration for this project and at the moment I would much rather get an NA project rather then risk this car and dump easily another 600 into a tune.

[wazzu70]

Keep in mind any head gasket or O ring wont protect against detonation. The whole point of an O ring or MLS, ect is to keep the gasket intact under high pressures. Detonation makes REALLY high pressures that no gasket is made to withstand. The gasket is a fuse, its meant to be the weak link when the system is overpressured to help save your bottom end.

The reason the car can be tuned on a dyno is you do not just make "pulls" at WOT. A dyno for tuning is a load bearing dyno that allows the tuner to hold the car at say 2000rpm and 60kpa. The tuner can then adjust the fueling for proper AFR and can adjust timing for MBT or on the safe side of knock...whichever comes first.

On the dyno you move through the rev/load range slowly so there is not much chance in harming the engine.

Hopefully the people making these PnP kits make sure people understand the car absolutely needs to be tuned before driving hard (even quickly). Also from the sounds of it, even the base map is not well done/conservative enough.

If you put in a new HG and drive the car like a granny you should be OK unless the base tune is horrible. Its also important to note even the best tune will have issues if all your sensors are not working correctly. Ensure your hardware is working properly before driving or taking the car to be tuned. The best tuner cant make up fir a hacked engine.

[euro2fast4u]

came in here for a giggle.

"dont know what my fuel is like or what my timing is"

keep it classy

[Kozworth]

Fair enough. I know that the ms was set for my injectors and 91 octane. I am sure i am not the only one who has blown gaskets. I figured it would be better then doing a war chip and afm tweaking..

[euro2fast4u]

it would be even better if you plugged your damn laptop up and monitored it for a few miles instead of beating on it as soon as you finish it. now you get to do it again, hoping you learned not to beat the piss out of it with out even reviewing either table.

[Kozworth]

First off, my ms has issues connecting to my laptop. I tried it.

And two.. if you watched the video or even read my post. The head popped under 3rd gear not really even hitting boost. Just a basic 3rd gear accelerate. Yes I did do a few pulls but It was to about 40mph you make it sound like I redlined every gear. So please read my post if your willing to put the time into helping someone figure out an issue.

[euro2fast4u]

3rd gear is a higher load gear then 1-2nd if you spent the time fixing MS we would be able to help you and not speculate. for all we know you could be hitting below 100kpa in that 1-2nd and as soon as you hit 3rd went over the 100kpa (dont usually go over 100kpa N/A), but your timing is through the roof and leaner then normal. dont give up bc you popped it. specs on who you bought the ms from and what where they using it for?

[Bullet Ride]

By the sounds of it you don't have a boost gauge, or at least one that's working? Since in the video you seemed to be saying you don't know how much boost that was, just that it was set at the lowest boost.

That's dangerous because you're assuming that your wastegate is working properly and/or efficiently enough to control the boost. I've seen a friends car with the boost "set to the lowest" spike up to 22psi because the manifold design didn't allow the wastegate to work well enough. He had to add a second wastegate to keep things under control.

I'd never drive a turbo build without a working boost gauge. If your laptop was working you'd be able to monitor that.

[Kozworth]

By the sounds of it you don't have a boost gauge, or at least one that's working? Since in the video you seemed to be saying you don't know how much boost that was, just that it was set at the lowest boost.

That's dangerous because you're assuming that your wastegate is working properly and/or efficiently enough to control the boost. I've seen a friends car with the boost "set to the lowest" spike up to 22psi because the manifold design didn't allow the wastegate to work well enough. He had to add a second wastegate to keep things under control.

I'd never drive a turbo build without a working boost gauge. If your laptop was working you'd be able to monitor that.

Well, thats the thing. The boost gauge does seem to work. In short.. when the idle screw was not open as much, if I blipped the throttle, the vacuum would dip from 16-20 in/mg, instead of creating more of a load and reducing vacuum. After I increased the idle screw.. it seems to read fine.

And as for the readings, I saw it go up to 10psi that time around.. even 15 at one time. I am really sure the wastegate is set for 8psi lol. But when driving as a beginner.. its hard to watch everything! Coolant temp, oil psi, boost, tach (even though I dont have one), afr, etc. In the video when it popps, it looks like it is in the 12s, and boost is hardly even there (0 psi is at about 12 oclock) I would have to say about 5psi. I am sure I would have to check into my wastegate and see why its not staying closed. Its a tial 38mm and I am pretty sure I baught it new off a r3ver

3rd gear is a higher load gear then 1-2nd if you spent the time fixing MS we would be able to help you and not speculate. for all we know you could be hitting below 100kpa in that 1-2nd and as soon as you hit 3rd went over the 100kpa (dont usually go over 100kpa N/A), but your timing is through the roof and leaner then normal. dont give up bc you popped it. specs on who you bought the ms from and what where they using it for?

Makes sense. Thats what scares me though, is granny shifting this car to its "sitting point" before it gets tuned.. since I would be in 4-5th and on the highway.

I baught it off of whodwho built for me. So i know he is a great guy and do not regret the setup one bit! I am sure things are just off and need to be fine tuned after all your guys posts.

I dont really have an issue with doing another gasket. I did two on this car, one on my moms e34, etc. Its just I am moving and dont want to dirty up the new place and really sink much money into this since I have rent. This cars taken my money for the past year and when this happens sometimes I think to let her go.

[ak-]

How many times did you shave the head? You're adding compression by doing that which means more chance of detonation.

Your wastegate has a harder time controlling boost at it's LOWEST psi during full load. Wastegates are happier at high psi's.
So, assuming everything is fine because you know you're running low psi doesn't mean things could be fine. You could be spiking/creeping hard.

Fix the car and drive it under vacuum, not going into boost, to the tuner and all will be fine.
You're not going to blow it up puttering it there even with a bad tune.

[Kozworth]

This is the first time to my knowledge. I got the head for free from a friend.. it had been sitting for a while from the looks of it. I told my friend to take it to the machine shop and get it skimmed so that its all flat, and pressure test. Yes, since I think b25s have an 8.5:1 CR? maybe I should look into a thicker gasket?

[93supercoupe]

By looking at those gaskets, that thing either had a ton of tkming or the orings arent installed right. With head gaskets like that, the plugs and tops of pistons must be showing signs of detonation

[93supercoupe]

And if ur still running the stock iginiton, then you need to check ur base timing

[Good & Tight]

After looking at the headgaskets, you are detonating for sure. High cylinder pressure spikes causes the HG to push out like that.

[Kozworth]

Well the plugs are all the tan color, which from what I know is normal combustion. The pistons across the board all looked the same. I talked to a good friend of mine, and yes while a tune would be a cause of it to blow, but its interesting how it blew on 4-5 twice. If there wasn't an issue with the cylinders i would assume the cylinders would all be under the same terms and if one was to detonate it would not always be the same one.

On this note, this is the first time the shop oringed a bmw block. I would have to inspect all the orings. Some looked a little flatter then the others, so I am not sure if they ground too deep or what. If the orings are messed up, and the deck surface seems fine, what would be the corrective action? I dont think I could really have the space to rip the engine out and replace the short block, let alone salvage the new bearings and such. Could I just pull out the orings and run it as if it was a normal block?