Possibly Leaving e30s for a bit after today (turbo gasket problems)

[wazzu70]

The O-rings aren't causing the detonation....

The rear cylinders usually have issues because they tend to run hotter. In combination with that your injectors may not have full flow, or may be wired up wrong. I think its safe to assume you did not verify the injectors were working correctly before running the engine...

[Kozworth]

Well why would they blow both the intake side aswell? I know orings wouldn't cause detonation I am just wondering if they weren't done properly

[LJ851]

Detonation is a vicious consumer of engine parts.

The first damage happens to the weakest link in the chain which happened to be your headgasket at the back three cylinders on the intake side.

Consider yourself lucky if thats all that failed and that it happened fast !

[whodwho]

These threads make me sad. Mainly because no matter how often they happen, someone will beat the piss out of an untuned motor and destroy it.

Im not sure why people think its ok to beat on/push a car without even verifying everything is ok in the logs?

A standalone that is plug and play is not tuned, its just got the parameters set up so all you have to do is modify the maps to fit your engine. Hopefully people aren't selling them as plug in and go setups!

Definitely not sold as a PNGO setup 8^)

It is listed as - Running MS2/Extra 3.2.4 - with startup tune - http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=202653

If people put these on a stock engine I would invest in a tuning session and provide a driving tune but who does. If there were std boosted configurations that I could base a tune on I would invest in a tune for that but what would be a std configuration. Even if a box tune was made it would be made conservative and you would benefit from the additional tuning as well.

People invest several thousand to build a setup but fail to invest several hundred to get it tuned and leave HP/dependability on the table.

I stress that additional tuning is needed and if they are to try to dial it in some on their own is preferably get the basics dialed in before going boosted or start at low loads and work up thru the loads.

You must resist the force... until tuned! 8^)

[whodwho]

Under inspection, the block does not seem to have any visible cracks or issues with the copper oringing. The head during first gasket was not used this time, and this head was skimmed and pressure tested. This head does not have any visible cracks.

I found it odd to see a copper wire used but that may have saved you from further damage, what protrusion was the oringing setup for?

[Kozworth]

Honestly, I called a shop that has been oringing Hondas for a while and they said it should be no problem with a BMW block if I Braught the gasket. I did and their work was done.

I really understand the importance of tuning now, but evenso I feel like its too coincidence that the same cylinders suffered.

My injectors are new 42lb 5.0 green tops. I don't think that it's a fuel issue. However I will be getting colder plugs. Turns out cylinder 1 plug had crushed so much there was no gap anymore.

[wazzu70]

Definitely not sold as a PNGO setup 8^)

It is listed as - Running MS2/Extra 3.2.4 - with startup tune - http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=202653

If people put these on a stock engine I would invest in a tuning session and provide a driving tune but who does. If there were std boosted configurations that I could base a tune on I would invest in a tune for that but what would be a std configuration. Even if a box tune was made it would be made conservative and you would benefit from the additional tuning as well.

People invest several thousand to build a setup but fail to invest several hundred to get it tuned and leave HP/dependability on the table.

I stress that additional tuning is needed and if they are to try to dial it in some on their own is preferably get the basics dialed in before going boosted or start at low loads and work up thru the loads.

You must resist the force... until tuned! 8^)

Sounds good to me. I didn't know anything about what you sell, but I wasn't trying to be negative toward your business if thats how it came across. I was just looking for answers.

There really is no point in making a really solid base tune as each engine is different. Also, tuning the engine and double checking all your sensors is a great way to verify everything is working correctly which is the installers responsibility! All you can do with a PnP setup is get the trigger config set properly and set the injector and ignition sequence. A above that, its all up to the purchaser!

I wish people would better realize the importance in tuning and a standalone is not a plug in and go device. If you do not intend to tune it yourself, or take it to be tuned....don't even consider the option.


To the OP, its no strange coincidence at all the gasket failed in the same place twice. You ran the same (improper) tune both times with nothing changed to correct the problem. The same cylinders are still having the same issues. Exactly what you would expect when making no changes to correct the problem.

If you have a fuse that pops, and you replace it with another fuse and it pops...is that weird? No, it means fix the underlying issue before replacing the fuse again!

[wazzu70]

I found it odd to see a copper wire used but that may have saved you from further damage, what protrusion was the oringing setup for?

Copper wire is incredibly common for O-rings. I see a lot more copper than stainless!

[Good & Tight]

Wait, a plug and play ECU doesn't self tune? I thought you just plug it in and all is good, WOT pulls right outta the driveway. !!!! Weeeeeeee

[FLG]

Start running 93, also your gonna Wana go a step or two colder on the plugs depending on what psi your aiming for. Bottom line is you need to get a proper tune.

I paid nearly 1k for my tune (had issues on the dyno and was there for nearly 10hrs, price was also for a mbc, and iridium plugs) I beat the ever living piss out of this car (dedicated drift car) and it's held up wonderfully. Also I'm only running stock hg and arp studs

"the shop " out in CT did my tune FYI

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

[wazzu70]

Wait, a plug and play ECU doesn't self tune? I thought you just plug it in and all is good, WOT pulls right outta the driveway. !!!! Weeeeeeee

Shocking huh?

[Rc 415]

Problem #1:
I am using arps that I got brand new. Maybe there is a different torque spec for arps? But from what I read, its just the same as oem. 22ftlbs 90 90. Ask me how I know.. ive done a few head gaskets yet this one does not want to ever stay.

Problem #2:
As for the tune.. Could be pushing it. I mean, the tach still doesnt work or speedo. However, in the video, and much like the first time the gasket popped, it seems when the car is in 3rd and steadily being pushed something goes. But reving the piss out of 1st and 2nd doesnt seem to phase it.

1) Torque the arp's to 70 ft-lb in 3 steps.

2) Get all your gauges and such working properly before you go driving it again. And whodwho should be able to help you with a basic tune to at least get the car to a tuner. Worked just fine for me.

Copper wire is incredibly common for O-rings. I see a lot more copper than stainless!

This is completely dependent on the type of head gasket used. For an oem BMW gasket steel wire should be used.

[Kozworth]

As much as this thread makes me look like a noobie, I appreciate the feedback.


Just went to the shop who machined the block and showed him the gaskets.. He said it looked like I ran super lean. He also said ( again he isn't bmw oriented but showed me his 800 horse Honda engine) that the Oem gasket does not seem to hold well with the orings and recommends the mls cometic. I heard a lot about seating issues an he told me if they do not explode like mine they are reusable. Would my best bet be getting a cometic and a tune? Or should I just run a goetze?

Also can anyone else also confirm the proper torque for arp on an m20? It seems just kind of pointless to say arp hold the head better and are worth having if they are torqued in the same manner. The only pro I see about arp would be the reusibility and ease of gasket install

[Good & Tight]

As much as this thread makes me look like a noobie, I appreciate the feedback.


Just went to the shop who machined the block and showed him the gaskets.. He said it looked like I ran super lean. He also said ( again he isn't bmw oriented but showed me his 800 horse Honda engine) that the Oem gasket does not seem to hold well with the orings and recommends the mls cometic. I heard a lot about seating issues an he told me if they do not explode like mine they are reusable. Would my best bet be getting a cometic and a tune? Or should I just run a goetze?

Also can anyone else also confirm the proper torque for arp on an m20? It seems just kind of pointless to say arp hold the head better and are worth having if they are torqued in the same manner. The only pro I see about arp would be the reusibility and ease of gasket install

Stock headgasket, ARP's, with O-ringing the block will hold 40psi, yes 40psi. You ask how? It's all in the tuning, a shitty tune will blow at 10psi. Got it?
TUNE TUNE TUNE tune tune...!!!!!!!
I'm running a stock bottom end B34 with ARP's and a Cometic, 27psi no blown headgasket. How you ask...? THE GODDAMN TUNE BOY..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now go put your stock headgasket with Orings and ARP's on and ..... don't make me repeat myself again.

[Exodus_2pt0]

If you put a MLS gasket in there and don't tune the damn thing... Next time you'll be picking up pieces of metal kibble all over the road.

Boost didn't blow your head gasket, the tune did. As said above.

If your shop builds 800 hp Honda's, why not ask if they can help you with a tune?