500 whp m20 on new head gasket, arp head studs and meth?

[grinchxvx]

I'm in for pics of this current STS setup!

I have a build thread going with a few pics, I'll take some more underside shots next time it's on the lift


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[Good & Tight]

We have T4's back in stock with enlarged wastegate piping diameter to increase flow through the wastegate. Also worth noting is that setups with Precision DBB turbos are hard to control boost with no muffler or exhaust tip. The journal bearing turbos have no issues with boost creep.

Turbo hits* not flange. But hopefully The fitment is good because I rather have a T4


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[5Toes]

FWIW my good friends MK3 Supra has a 1JZ (24V 2.5 liter) with Precision 6262 journal bearing + megasquirt and he complains its too laggy. Ive ridden along and yes boost doesnt hit till 4k, but it hits HARD.

I dont have much turbo build experience but it seems the 6262 is too big for a responsive setup on a baby six.

I have an s50 on the stand with a G&T manifold, just no turbo or accessories. I am not sure if I want to turbo the s50 or a cheap m50nv. I had the m50nv in my e34 and it was awesome, 240k miles didnt burn any oil, great power. the m50nv is super simple to work on and very overbuilt from the factory - and since it lacks VANOS its CHEAP.

the 24v engines have a ton of options, I think you should figure out what you want:
- megasquirt or chip tuned
- SOHC or DOHC
- VANOS or no VANOS. nonvanos makes sense for boost, vanos will give you earlier spool but its more to break...

my 2 cents. its awesome you and your friends are turboing the cars with success :) keep at it and let us know whatever direction you take!

[grinchxvx]

500 whp m20 on new head gasket, arp head studs and meth?

FWIW my good friends MK3 Supra has a 1JZ (24V 2.5 liter) with Precision 6262 journal bearing + megasquirt and he complains its too laggy. Ive ridden along and yes boost doesnt hit till 4k, but it hits HARD.

I dont have much turbo build experience but it seems the 6262 is too small for a responsive setup on a baby six.

I have an s50 on the stand with a G&T manifold, just no turbo or accessories. I am not sure if I want to turbo the s50 or a cheap m50nv. I had the m50nv in my e34 and it was awesome, 240k miles didnt burn any oil, great power. the m50nv is super simple to work on and very overbuilt from the factory - and since it lacks VANOS its CHEAP.

the 24v engines have a ton of options, I think you should figure out what you want:
- megasquirt or chip tuned
- SOHC or DOHC
- VANOS or no VANOS. nonvanos makes sense for boost, vanos will give you earlier spool but its more to break...

my 2 cents. its awesome you and your friends are turboing the cars with success :) keep at it and let us know whatever direction you take!

It's a laggy but a 6262 was too small? Don't you mean big? I don't even know what the size under a 6262 would be.

I like the idea of not having vanos in a m50 but I also like the extra displacement and obd2 abilities of m52. Does the displacement even make a difference though? I could see it helping with spool along with some vanos tuning tweaks.

I don't know what tune to run, I've heard good things about TRM or RK, I'm assuming that's a chip tune?

Pretty sure I'm going 24v, the m20 is a good little motor but sounds like it won't be reliable for my goals. Plus I can do MLS, studs, and machine the head/block for smoothness around 600 bucks I bet.
Doing the headgasket stud combo on my m20 would probably cost 400 and I still wouldn't be able to make the power I want. I'll probably just turn up the boost on my current setup until i 24v swap.

If vanos can help with spool that's awesome but you're right, I can get expensive. The stage 3 DR, vanos is what 300? Plus taking the whole thing apart to replace it.
Kind of on the fence still if I wanna go m50 or m52


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[Northern]

TRM and RK flash OBD2 tunes with the cables they include in their kits for OBD2 cars, and I assume they mail out chips for OBD1 setups.

[Northern]

I like the idea of not having vanos in a m50 but I also like the extra displacement and obd2 abilities of m52. Does the displacement even make a difference though? I could see it helping with spool along with some vanos tuning tweaks.

I don't know what tune to run, I've heard good things about TRM or RK, I'm assuming that's a chip tune?

Pretty sure I'm going 24v, the m20 is a good little motor but sounds like it won't be reliable for my goals. Plus I can do MLS, studs, and machine the head/block for smoothness around 600 bucks I bet.
Doing the headgasket stud combo on my m20 would probably cost 400 and I still wouldn't be able to make the power I want. I'll probably just turn up the boost on my current setup until i 24v swap.

If vanos can help with spool that's awesome but you're right, I can get expensive. The stage 3 DR, vanos is what 300? Plus taking the whole thing apart to replace it.
Kind of on the fence still if I wanna go m50 or m52

The advantage of the M52 isn't just displacement. OBD2 is a big part of it, like you said, but some other additions over the M50tu are the ZF320 trans used in the manuals, lighter lifters like the S52, and the forged crank.

The M52 and M50tu also have a lot of advantages over the M50NV, like vanos($60 for seals once every 20 years doesn't seem like "a lot to break" to me, and it does help spool), The ability to run S50/S52 cams, lighter single valve springs, more modern piston and rod designs(sure the M50NV rods are slightly stronger, but at a significant weight penalty from all the extra dead weight they have), and the non-vanos ECU isn't super popular for chip tuning(not that I'd really recommend using the OBD1 ECU anyway)

[grinchxvx]

The advantage of the M52 isn't just displacement. OBD2 is a big part of it, like you said, but some other additions over the M50tu are the ZF320 trans used in the manuals, lighter lifters like the S52, and the forged crank.

The M52 and M50tu also have a lot of advantages over the M50NV, like vanos($60 for seals once every 20 years doesn't seem like "a lot to break" to me, and it does help spool), The ability to run S50/S52 cams, lighter single valve springs, more modern piston and rod designs(sure the M50NV rods are slightly stronger, but at a significant weight penalty from all the extra dead weight they have), and the non-vanos ECU isn't super popular for chip tuning(not that I'd really recommend using the OBD1 ECU anyway)

I don't know forsure if I'm grabbing the zf trans too but if it's there I might. The vanos can be more expensive than that if you go dr vanos, but I'm not familiar with the e36 single vanos. I know the e46 m3 has A lot more expensive parts than just the seals.

Yeah I googled RK tunes saw they send you a whole tuning package, but it's pretty pricey. Is there anyone who will just tune the car for a lesser price and I can use my own injectors and MAF? If there is no better way around it then I'll pay the money but 1300 for a tune sounds crazy


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[auxoura]

Sorry to be hijacking this thread but what would be a good clutch to hold that kind of power yet maintain drivability. I am considering the UUC M5 clutch kit including flywheel but it is a little pricey. Wondering if there are any alternative other than that.

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/light...ion-p1327.aspx

*Whoa first post....thought I posted something somewhere before...Haha

[kevine30]

I'd swap and turbo for that power goal, but M20 will hold it a decent bit of power. Local guy here was making a little over 450 wheel on a stock m20 lasted a year or so I believe before an injector failed.

[Northern]

The vanos can be more expensive than that if you go dr vanos, but I'm not familiar with the e36 single vanos. I know the e46 m3 has A lot more expensive parts than just the seals.

http://www.beisansystems.com/products.html

$60 for the seals and the rattle fix.

Yeah I googled RK tunes saw they send you a whole tuning package, but it's pretty pricey. Is there anyone who will just tune the car for a lesser price and I can use my own injectors and MAF? If there is no better way around it then I'll pay the money but 1300 for a tune sounds crazy

You could probably get someone else to do it. I'm doing this sort of thing with dave @ markertmotorworks, because I already have injectors and cables/bench flasher. You may be able to use your stock MAF, but there are software limits that need workarounds, and the stock MAF only works as a draw-thu. If you want Blow thru, most kits use this: http://www.pmas-maf.com/hpx/

[grinchxvx]

http://www.beisansystems.com/products.html

$60 for the seals and the rattle fix.



You could probably get someone else to do it. I'm doing this sort of thing with dave @ markertmotorworks, because I already have injectors and cables/bench flasher. You may be able to use your stock MAF, but there are software limits that need workarounds, and the stock MAF only works as a draw-thu. If you want Blow thru, most kits use this: http://www.pmas-maf.com/hpx/

I'm not familiar with the difference between blow through and draw through, what are they and where do I get the blow through? My other car just runs a MAP sensor


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[Northern]

http://www.lasotaracing.com/techdrawthroug.html

^ decent overview of blow/draw thru. I think it just makes it easier. Trying to run a 2.5" MAF in front of a turbo with a 4" inlet with a reducer and plumbing for a bypass valve, then fitting a filter in front of that doesn't really give you much room.

Another downside of draw thru is being stuck with a bybass valve vs BOV, and I think tuning for the blow thru is just easier in general.

I think one of the 803/809 porsche 3" MAF that guys use as the "euro hfm" upgrade works as a blow thru, but then you're stuck trying to scale the maf based on second hand info, whereas the HPX setups are a little more expensive, but come with the transfer function to convert your tables.

You can buy the HPX setup from the "store" section of their site, I think it's $200 for the maf, plus $25 for a pigtail, and $50 if you opt for their 3" housing, but I think miller or TRM make a plate you can weld to your charge piping instead.

There are a lot of threads on the romraider e36 subforum http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42 about the issue with stock MAFs, how they currently workaround the issue, and how they plan to integrate an easier way to switch mafs or allow for increased airflow in the ECU.

[Northern]

There's been talk of running a MAP sensor, but it hasn't happened yet. The major M5x tuners all use the HPX maf for turbo setups afaik.

[grinchxvx]

http://www.lasotaracing.com/techdrawthroug.html

^ decent overview of blow/draw thru. I think it just makes it easier. Trying to run a 2.5" MAF in front of a turbo with a 4" inlet with a reducer and plumbing for a bypass valve, then fitting a filter in front of that doesn't really give you much room.

Another downside of draw thru is being stuck with a bybass valve vs BOV, and I think tuning for the blow thru is just easier in general.

I think one of the 803/809 porsche 3" MAF that guys use as the "euro hfm" upgrade works as a blow thru, but then you're stuck trying to scale the maf based on second hand info, whereas the HPX setups are a little more expensive, but come with the transfer function to convert your tables.

You can buy the HPX setup from the "store" section of their site, I think it's $200 for the maf, plus $25 for a pigtail, and $50 if you opt for their 3" housing, but I think miller or TRM make a plate you can weld to your charge piping instead.

There are a lot of threads on the romraider e36 subforum http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42 about the issue with stock MAFs, how they currently workaround the issue, and how they plan to integrate an easier way to switch mafs or allow for increased airflow in the ECU.

I see now, it might just be worth it to get the whole tuning package from TRM/RK but I need to see what I can get the hardware for separately first.

I couldn't sleep last night so I put together a parts lists with rough costs for the whole car and I got around 4000 reusing as much as I can from my current setup with cheaper used parts and around 6000 by buying most things new and reusing what I can. I'm going to be hawking the FS section for used stuff.

Looks like I can have a pretty well sorted clean e30 for less than 10k, not bad considering the only thing cheaper and faster for the money would be a POS Honda.



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[grinchxvx]

I'm seeing A lot of used obd1 trm tuning packages for sale.... Might have to do that


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