m20 street build : part deux

[82eye]

Sure, IE and supersprint should have better build quality than a $200 ebay header. IE long tube headers (out of stock) are $640 and are not legal for a car in CA. My point is that IE would have to charge $1,640 or more if they were to spend the time/money to get them tested and made legal. I agree there is very little demand, which would be further eroded by the cost differential of a 49-state $200 header vs a 50-state $1,640 header.

IE and supersprint sold piles of those headers into california. they pop up in the used parts threads all the time. bimmerheads sells the IE header new when it is available. they are a california based company.


edit : my IE header was closer to $1200 landed with taxes and coating.

[AceAndrew777]

^"for offroad use only."

Little rant with backstory....

As the former product development/manufacturing guy at IE, I will say you guys nailed most of the reasoning. Another more prevalent issue now is reliable manufacturing. The gentleman whose business was making these headers for us retired. The guy he sold the business to ran it into the ground. A lot of small manufacturing guys that that would be dependable have left or are leaving the state.

Fun side note when I spent a year working on the new exotic side of the aftermarket was the "cats" and CARB compliance. A disgruntled ex-employee called the feds on one of the companies, who was subsequently raided. They were fined obscene amounts of money for every "non-compliant" cat on the shelf, nearly put them out of business. Other shops got word and lots of stuff quietly disappeared.

A generation of hotrodders stood up and carved out legal exemptions for the cars they loved to build and enjoy, we're operating in quickly receding coat-tails of their actions. No one from our newer generation is stepping up, opting to play along. It's pathetic, we're facing being outlawed to oblivion by a thousand cuts.

I maintain that tinkering on your car as a kid is one of the key gateways to mechanical competency that this country needs. Now that I'm in aerospace, I'm seeing how essential that skill is and how big of a cliff we are facing over the next ten/fifteen years. The biggest asset I have over fellow engineers my age is that basic technical competency that came from tinkering. The big defense guys are handling it in one of two ways. Option 1) "ostrich effect" via outsourcing manufacturing, works for now but ignores the larger issue. Option 2) (this is happening within a number of larger companies) Fresh engineer grads are paired up with skilled technicians for 1 to 3 years before they're allowed to do "engineering" work. If this is too little, too late, only time will tell.

[82eye]

^"for offroad use only."

Little rant with backstory....

As the former product development/manufacturing guy at IE, I will say you guys nailed most of the reasoning. Another more prevalent issue now is reliable manufacturing. The gentleman whose business was making these headers for us retired. The guy he sold the business to ran it into the ground. A lot of small manufacturing guys that that would be dependable have left or are leaving the state.

Fun side note when I spent a year working on the new exotic side of the aftermarket was the "cats" and CARB compliance. A disgruntled ex-employee called the feds on one of the companies, who was subsequently raided. They were fined obscene amounts of money for every "non-compliant" cat on the shelf, nearly put them out of business. Other shops got word and lots of stuff quietly disappeared.

A generation of hotrodders stood up and carved out legal exemptions for the cars they loved to build and enjoy, we're operating in quickly receding coat-tails of their actions. No one from our newer generation is stepping up, opting to play along. It's pathetic, we're facing being outlawed to oblivion by a thousand cuts.

I maintain that tinkering on your car as a kid is one of the key gateways to mechanical competency that this country needs. Now that I'm in aerospace, I'm seeing how essential that skill is and how big of a cliff we are facing over the next ten/fifteen years. The biggest asset I have over fellow engineers my age is that basic technical competency that came from tinkering. The big defense guys are handling it in one of two ways. Option 1) "ostrich effect" via outsourcing manufacturing, works for now but ignores the larger issue. Option 2) (this is happening within a number of larger companies) Fresh engineer grads are paired up with skilled technicians for 1 to 3 years before they're allowed to do "engineering" work. If this is too little, too late, only time will tell.

oh crap are you telling me i scooped the last m20 longtube header ever from IE ?

i've heard similar talk about the lack of hands on talent coming up in engineering tied to those very same reasons. everyone just wants to scan and print crap now for a living.

[McGyver]

I guess I got side tracked on a CA rant. Sure, stuff gets sold into CA all the time. It's just a hassle for the annual inspection since it's not legal to run, and they actively look for it.

I totally agree that availability of skilled labor has killed a ton of niche products that used to exist.

[82eye]

I guess I got side tracked on a CA rant. Sure, stuff gets sold into CA all the time. It's just a hassle for the annual inspection since it's not legal to run, and they actively look for it.

I totally agree that availability of skilled labor has killed a ton of niche products that used to exist.

always thought a header would be ok as long as the emissions stayed in range.

[McGyver]

always thought a header would be ok as long as the emissions stayed in range.

Nope. I actually had an m42 guy fail for the stock headers because the Smog tech thought they were aftermarket. I think we printed out a page from RealOEM to help him prove they were stock and legal.

[kyleconstantine]

Damn I want out of NJ but it the fact that they don't inspect my car at all is a big factor for me. I wonder what other free states still exist.

[82eye]

Damn I want out of NJ but it the fact that they don't inspect my car at all is a big factor for me. I wonder what other free states still exist.

i can get away with just about anything here.

[kyleconstantine]

In Canada? Don't they crush cars for speeding? Honestly since I've been going to the track I've got pretty calm on the road anyway.

[82eye]

In Canada? Don't they crush cars for speeding? Honestly since I've been going to the track I've got pretty calm on the road anyway.

depends where you are in the country.

in ontario and quebec there's been trouble with massive auto events not sanctioned by any professional organization. they'll take over entire towns, sometime for multiple days, overwhelming the local law enforcement, and have drag racing, burnout competitions, and racing on city streets. there's also a lot of night racing that happens with high end sportscars and supercars. there's been a lot of property damage and a few fatalities among both participants and bystanders.

it's all organized and driven by social media. we get similar stuff but it's on a far smaller scale where i live.

edit : the car crushing you are thinking of began about a yr ago as a means of shutting this stuff down. a lot of jurisdictions also started cracking down on modified cars or made more restrictions on allowing them on the road. it's pretty wide open where i am though.

[kyleconstantine]

Damn a few morons gotta ruin it for everyone. I live outside Philly now and it's not uncommon to get caught for 4-5 red light cycles while the dirt bikes hold you up and do their wheelies.

[rturbo 930]

Damn a few morons gotta ruin it for everyone. I live outside Philly now and it's not uncommon to get caught for 4-5 red light cycles while the dirt bikes hold you up and do their wheelies.

Where? I don't get what where I'm at.

[kyleconstantine]

Where? I don't get what where I'm at.

In philly. I was living there with my wife they really started going nuts during the lock downs and it seems like the cops aren't enforcing anything anymore.

[rturbo 930]

In philly. I was living there with my wife they really started going nuts during the lock downs and it seems like the cops aren't enforcing anything anymore.

Ah, okay, that explains it. Your profile says South Jersey. On a few occasions I've seen some guys getting the way of traffic on quads but that's about it.

[82eye]

In philly. I was living there with my wife they really started going nuts during the lock downs and it seems like the cops aren't enforcing anything anymore.

that was when the stupid crap started here as well. everyone thought it would go away after covid petered out but it hasn't.

it's not all that bad where i live. locally there is a somewhat isolated industrial park near the city that a bunch of street racers have turned into an afterhours raceway that is concerning. the city tried to counter by adding a bunch of rumble strips, but the truck and commercial traffic needed during daytime made them pull almost all of it out.

the cops have gotten better at monitoring and responding to racing organized on social media. the participants aren't dumb though, most of the stuff is now going on when the police don't have the resources to do anything.

edit : we actually need a decent track nearby. there is a lot of support for it. the closest one is over 250 km away. the local pearl clutchers keep blocking it any time someone with enough dollars to make it happen mounts a push. locally there's nothing but a shitty oval at the moment.