M20 strocker VE , Ignition

[zaq123]

M20B29 10:1 comp, 288 Shrink cam, 40mm ITBs. Tune has VE table in full control (AFR is for reference only).


Any comments appreciated.

[zaq123]

Just to explain 2 VE tables: VE tables were setup in the attempt to give more resolution to low throttle openings (table VE1 switches to VE3 past 20% of TPS) .

[hasa]

1) Are you sure your engine takes that shit load of advance on WOT ?

2) Isn't the VE highest at the point where highest torque occurs?

Sorry, I have experience only about TPS/RPM maps in N/A applications and just milliseconds as cell values for injection... so all principles learned there might not apply here.

[digger]

What are your intentions? Just good enough for the drive to dyno for proper tune ?

as alluded too looks like way too much timing at high load with the Mahle MS pistons shouldn’t need that much which would be more applicable to flat top

[zaq123]

What are your intentions? Just good enough for the drive to dyno for proper tune ?

as alluded too looks like way too much timing at high load with the Mahle MS pistons shouldn’t need that much which would be more applicable to flat top

thank you all. I took a break from this build and getting back to it now. The car has not been started yet. Tune was given to me by Kamotors when I got RHD ITBs through him. It was just a starting tune he gave me. I guess I will go over everything myself and report back with whatever I come up with. I want to make starting tune as safe as possible ant not being too rich at the same time for my freshly built motor. Here is another question for you guys:

The only fuel we have available is e10 with stoich of 14.1. My wideband controller http://www.breitband-lambda.de is most likely setup for 14.7 as lambda 1. I'm not sure if there is a way to adjust it yet.
Should my AFR table be created considering 14.1 for e10 fuel?

[zaq123]

any better or spark advance table is still junk ? I updated AFR table taking in the consideration e10 gas 14.1 stoich, not sure if it's the way to go (my question in the post above)

[hasa]

If this is "startup map"... just to drive to Dyno.. I would put 28 degrees to 4900 and upwards, and 24-25 to 3100 and 4100. But this is just guess.

[zaq123]

Guys, need your help to get her started (relatively safe due to brand new motor. ) so I can balance ITBs and get her to the dyno. What should I load into her?

option 1 in post # 6 above


another options:
option 2.



option 3

[ForcedFirebird]

Advancing timing much over 29° gives severely diminishing returns. Here's the stock tables I posted in the past. As you can see, it touches 29° only after peak torque.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...59#post7038359

Problem with helping with VE maps, is depending on injectors, that number can be all over the place, so they are kind of arbitrary to share alone. The AFR target is a better guide.

Finally, have you verified the trigger offset/timing? That will have a HUGE factor on actual timing numbers vs what is written on the map. Some start with trigger angle 84°, some at 92° - that alone can be a 6° difference from what the engine "wants" and what the map "says". Two identical cars with different tooth angle offsets will result in two ACTUAL timing numbers at the spark plug.

[zaq123]

Advancing timing much over 29° gives severely diminishing returns. Here's the stock tables I posted in the past. As you can see, it touches 29° only after peak torque.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...59#post7038359

Problem with helping with VE maps, is depending on injectors, that number can be all over the place, so they are kind of arbitrary to share alone. The AFR target is a better guide.

Finally, have you verified the trigger offset/timing? That will have a HUGE factor on actual timing numbers vs what is written on the map. Some start with trigger angle 84°, some at 92° - that alone can be a 6° difference from what the engine "wants" and what the map "says". Two identical cars with different tooth angle offsets will result in two ACTUAL timing numbers at the spark plug.

Thank you for the feedback, this is the kind of info I'm looking for. I haven't started the car yet, trying to figure out the start tune hence this post. Once started with 10 degrees locked advance (good enough for M20?), my next course of action to get the ignition offset correctly with the adjustable light. Once that is done, sync ITBs. Once ITBs are synced, I want to adjust it good enough to brake in new motor (gently) before taking it to the dyno and finalizing the tune. That would be an ideal plan. Trying to avoid towing her to the dyno for a gentle tune for breaking in the motor and then doing another dyno trip to really tune her to the potential. What's your thoughts?

[ForcedFirebird]

The base file that comes on the MS will start the car fine as long as you change the injector constant to match what you have.

I would start with just getting it running. Then verify timing, then balance ITB.

I can sell you a base tune :p

[digger]

if the timing is conservative and it isn't rattling and AFR are safe under moderate load then its fine to break it in before dyno. The dyno is a better place to do it though as you dont need to worry about other road users.
you just don't want to be frigging around with the tune to get it it run right while dumping tonnes of fuel into the cylinder and oil which will cause issues

[zaq123]

The base file that comes on the MS will start the car fine as long as you change the injector constant to match what you have.

I would start with just getting it running. Then verify timing, then balance ITB.

I can sell you a base tune :p

Thanks John. I actually did buy your base tune back in 18 when started building this motor for this restoration (lol yes, it has been one long restoration)

[ForcedFirebird]

That's not my tables. That looks to be what comes with the MegaSquirts. If you bought a base tune, support comes with. Email me John@m20guru.com and I'll fix you up!

Apologies, don't always recognize usernames with real names.

[zaq123]

That's not my tables. That looks to be what comes with the MegaSquirts. If you bought a base tune, support comes with. Email me John@m20guru.com and I'll fix you up!

Apologies, don't always recognize usernames with real names.

John, It was a "beer money" base tune purchase (I never went back for the full service). I'm sorry if I screenshotted tables wrong or something from the tune.....let me check


PS. I emailed you. Thanks again sir