Tuning without a dyno...can it be done?

[blocke]

So I'm heavily considering going with a Miller War Chip setup to compliment my Miller Maf, especially after Brody's post regarding the progress with their new E30 project. That or possibly a full blown megasquirt setup, but that would be down the road.

My question is, aside from just using base tunes, or files already created by others..can I efficiently tune my car to take advantage of my bolt-ons without access to a Dyno or a wideband?
How will I even be able to get base figures, or measure the effects of changes made without some sort of data? Will I just be a "shot in the dark"?

Is it pointless to buy a system like that, without spending the extra to buy a wideband o2, and some dyno time?

[dkbmxer002]

yes just gotta find a tuner who will do it. my car had more tuning done on the street than on the dyno.

[brody]

Tuning on the street is only good for dialing in fuel. You will want to do timing adjustments on the dyno. Megasquirt, WAR chip or any tuning is best done on the dyno, you'll spend less time dickin around this way.

@dkbmxer, love your e30... That's the color we have planed for our W.A.R. fleet!

[Danny]

Tuning on the street is only good for dialing in fuel. You will want to do timing adjustments on the dyno. Megasquirt, WAR chip or any tuning is best done on the dyno, you'll spend less time dickin around this way.

I agree with this. When I did my turbo m42 I tuned it on the street. I went and had it dyno tuned and they pulled another 15whp from my tune.

[dkbmxer002]

when i get my car finally tuned all out, it will be at the track. but it is a drag setup.

and thank you brody!

[nando]

yeah, you can get fairly close with the timing maps on a street tune, but definitely not 100%. fuel is easy to tune on the street, I'd actually do all of the fuel map on the street (assuming you can datalog O2, RPM, and load), and not waste money tuning fuel on a dyno. Spend your dyno time on ignition, it's where the power is made anyway.

[ForcedFirebird]

^^^ Agreed.

BUT, I wouldn't try tuning without at least the WB (log-able vs RPM).

[Jaxx_]

if you don't have a wideband, don't even bother trying to tune unless you're just aiming for efficiency. I'm doing something similar with an m10, edis, ms3, but a wideband is key. most of your power will be made at about 12.5-13.0 with an NA motor.

[dkbmxer002]

wideband ftw, that is for sure.

[jlevie]

You can sort of tune the car without using a dyno if, and only if, you have a wide band O2 sensor and a means of logging O2 sensor data during a 3rd or 4th gear pull from about 2000rpm to the redline. If you don't have a means of logging data you can't see the A/F curve and really can't tell what you are doing. Running the car on a dyno will tell a lot more about what the engine is doing when you play with fuel and ignition maps.

[reelizmpro]

Yes you can, especially with a wideband. You can get it very very close but nothing beats a dyno session.

[Kershaw]

i heard that you can indeed tune it on the street, but only if you have a wideband. tuning on a dyno beats a street tune however.

(lets keep it going.)

[nando]

You really don't need a dyno to tune fuel. All you need is a good target map (can be in the ECU, or in your head), and the ability to log wideband O2 with load and RPM.

often times a dyno doesn't recreate "real" driving situations anyway, such as fast transients. at $300 for a couple hours on a brake dyno, I'd spend the money on a wideband first. Use that $300 dyno time to tune your ignition map, which you cannot really do on the street (no, a knock sensor doesn't help you tune timing).

It's even better if you can use software to look through your logs and adjust fuel with statistics (Megalogviewer, for example). I'd take that over tuning cell by cell on a dyno any day, unless money is no object.

A WOT fuel curve should take at most 2-3 pulls with AFR logging, it's really not complicated and doesn't require a dyno at all. the difficultly and time consumption is in the light load/cruise parts of the map.

[dkbmxer002]

well said.

[briansjacobs]

NO, but then again I have easy access to a dyno, but yes I still need to pay for it. and it is worth every penny. I can not imagine doing 3rd and 4th gear runs at WOT on the street trying to pay attention to a O2 guage. STUPID!