Different AFM or MAF for M20?

[M20power93]

Is there any different AFM's or MAF's you can use for the M20 motor to gain more power or make the engine more efficient? I know someone who put a larger MAF on an S52 and got noticeable gain. Is the same true for the M20? Obviously theres a big difference between the two..it's an M20B25

[nando]

the only thing in this category that's worth a damn is a MAF kit from miller. I think it runs about $300 with a chip.

different AFM's without requisite tuning is a waste of time.

and in any case, changing only the size of the air flow meter isn't going to significantly change power. Most of the gains from swaps like that come from the subsequent retune.

[e30 gangsta]

^ x2 with the war chip

[DmcL]

theres probably tons of 0-5v outputting AFM's, MAF's, MAP's and maybe even variable TPS sensors for good measure out there that can be made to work and work good.. the issue is the tuning required to get it working. from what i have done so far and what i know/have seen about how the stock ECU works it looks like miller are only scratching the surface of all the possibilities.

i have already had my own M20 running very well on one bosch MAF and idling/revving ok on a GM 1 bar MAP sensor.. i would maybe try a variable TPS and try it alpha-n style but mounting a suitable TPS would take a bit of head scratching and i havent even finished playing with MAF or MAP sensors yet.. nearly forgot, also had it running great on an M30 AFM also lol

[manjambles]

just installed my miller intake and chip, and yes it brought my m20 to life. 1-3 spin tire all day ( im building for drift so thats what i want). it also made the throttle way more responsive. best money spent!!!

[nando]

theres probably tons of 0-5v outputting AFM's, MAF's, MAP's and maybe even variable TPS sensors for good measure out there that can be made to work and work good.. the issue is the tuning required to get it working. from what i have done so far and what i know/have seen about how the stock ECU works it looks like miller are only scratching the surface of all the possibilities.

i have already had my own M20 running very well on one bosch MAF and idling/revving ok on a GM 1 bar MAP sensor.. i would maybe try a variable TPS and try it alpha-n style but mounting a suitable TPS would take a bit of head scratching and i havent even finished playing with MAF or MAP sensors yet.. nearly forgot, also had it running great on an M30 AFM also lol

M30 automatic TPS from an E34 is a direct bolt on, still has the TP switches as well as the variable TPS. would work fine for alpha-N, not that I'd want to run alpha-N unless I had to..

[downforce22]

just installed my miller intake and chip, and yes it brought my m20 to life. 1-3 spin tire all day ( im building for drift so thats what i want). it also made the throttle way more responsive. best money spent!!!

i was looking into the MAF system. Found this thread. From the site it looks like you need an adapter for the m20 (oout of stock :( )

What kind of performance gains would this put out? Is the main reason for doing it the tune-able WAR chip combination? thanks

[nando]

miller will claim huge gains from the maf, but most of it is really from the tuning.

[TimR]

Look at all thier dynos and info, allmost all the info says * M30 TB and 2.5" performance exaust, So whats the #'s without doing another $300-500 in upgrades, one part has a plain jane HP pull, did a 3.5 bar FPR get added too?? If i told you my $1300 headers would give you 35 HP would you just buy them?? OOps you need a highflow Cat, Y pipe 2.5" exaust to a Eisermann muffler to get 35HP is that fair???

[downforce22]

thanks for the quick response nando.. I was looking into possible upgrades, the 6000 ft elevation takes away a lot of the power that I have/ want if I was a lot closer to sea level.

I'm not sure an ix would like this combo anyway, but then again assuming it has the stock chip it is basically a regular m20 and ecu, correct?

[nando]

yes the engine is no different

[Cyrix2k]

miller will claim huge gains from the maf, but most of it is really from the tuning.

Pretty much. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chhzV2O3nEA

Same tune, only difference is AFM vs no AFM and they picked up 3 hp/3ft lb torque. With the new tune and no AFM, +23 hp/+23 ft lbs torque

[brody]

HAHA! the MAF won't even work without a tune you guys. OBVIOUSLY the gains come from tuning FOR the MAF becuase without the tuning, you would have a shitty driving car. That is why our conversions come with a chip and that is why we claim what our CONVERSION give in terms of power.

On our website is a bone stock M20 with JUST the MAF conversion.

http://millerperformancecars.com/files/Gen%20III%202.5L.pdf

This is just our normal GENIII MAF. Those who have actually installed our products can vouch our claims are not astronomically out of whack like many people think...

[browntown]

I don't remember the reasoning behind it but the using a m30 afm on the m20 was all the rage a couple years ago. Probably bigger opening.

[digger]

HAHA! the MAF won't even work without a tune you guys. OBVIOUSLY the gains come from tuning FOR the MAF becuase without the tuning, you would have a shitty driving car. That is why our conversions come with a chip and that is why we claim what our CONVERSION give in terms of power.

On our website is a bone stock M20 with JUST the MAF conversion.

http://millerperformancecars.com/files/Gen%20III%202.5L.pdf

This is just our normal GENIII MAF. Those who have actually installed our products can vouch our claims are not astronomically out of whack like many people think...

I think his point was that since the AFM is not a large restriction that doing a retune while retaining the AFM will give you 90% of the WOT gains i.e. the MAF part doesn't do much for WOT. Obviously there is more to performance than simply WOT runs but anyway.......

Brody, Where are the independant dyno tests for the M20?