ZDDP Oil Additives

[TrentW]

Just run the VR-1 or the GTX + Rislone or mobile 1. Your cat will be just fine as stated before. It has been seeing ZDDP for years on years now.

The now obsolete Kendall with the the old, I believe was SG rated, and have tons of ZDDP. The new SL rated is no where near what is used to be. When the EPA banished the SG rating the local parts stores could not sell it anymore so i went all over town and bought over 500 bottles for .15 each. That is teh only reason I still have some.

You guys should just listen to John (forcedfirebird). All the reading you can do on the interwebs will not compete with his hands on actual experience. Done.

That's exactly right. All this theory crafting does you no good when someone with actual experience is involved. There's nothing I hate more than someone reading an article or a thread then thinking they know everything there is to know about everything. No amount of theory compares to hands on experience. Period.

John is correct. No need for any more discussion. As stated earlier in this thread, this topic has been covered a hundred times.


Taylor

I agree with you both--I put a lot of faith in what John says, that's why I replied to this thread. He chimed in on my question over on E30tech, but when I asked about switching to Mobil 1 on an M20 with just over 200k on the bottom end and a rebuilt top end @ 185k I never got a response. I ask because awhile back Mike Miller recommended not switching to a synth oil in a higher mileage engine and others say it will cause leaks. Oil is a complex topic with lots of "fuzzy logic" and I'm hoping to get some empirical advice from a pro such as John. I'm going to switch to Mobil 1 as long as he thinks it's okay for my particular engine. It's much appreciated that we can get free, accurate advice from someone with knowledge btw.

So what say you John?

[E30_fiend]

You guys should just listen to John (forcedfirebird). All the reading you can do on the interwebs will not compete with his hands on actual experience. Done.

That's exactly right. All this theory crafting does you no good when someone with actual experience is involved. There's nothing I hate more than someone reading an article or a thread then thinking they know everything there is to know about everything. No amount of theory compares to hands on experience. Period.

John is correct. No need for any more discussion. As stated earlier in this thread, this topic has been covered a hundred times.


Taylor

[Sirotto]

Just run the VR-1 or the GTX + Rislone or mobile 1. Your cat will be just fine as stated before. It has been seeing ZDDP for years on years now.

The now obsolete Kendall with the the old, I believe was SG rated, and have tons of ZDDP. The new SL rated is no where near what is used to be. When the EPA banished the SG rating the local parts stores could not sell it anymore so i went all over town and bought over 500 bottles for .15 each. That is teh only reason I still have some.

You guys should just listen to John (forcedfirebird). All the reading you can do on the interwebs will not compete with his hands on actual experience. Done.

[ForcedFirebird]

The additive will say on the bottle, usually one bottle per 5qt. Just run Mobil1 15-50, it's cheaper than conventional and the additive. We have switched to M1 at the shop.

[TrentW]

This.

I use additive with conventional/low zinc synthetics, none with Mobil1 or Rotella. If a customer is partial to a specific oil, then I add the ZDDP since in the end, I am responsible for their vehicle. More ZDDP isn't better per say.

In my own car, I run GTX and ZDDP, just because I am old school and always have been partial to GTX (plus being a cheap at times and will buy in bulk when on sale, lol).

I'm in a quandry about oil right now. I too was using 20w50 GTX but found out about low ZDDP levels and that Castrol won't even publish their specs so switched to Valvoline VR-1 20w50. Now I find out that since it's a racing oil, there is no detergent in it and also isn't recommended for vehicles with a cat.

I'm thinking of adding the Rislone ZDDP and switching back to GTX, but what is the proper amount needed?

Or, what about Kendall GT-1? Supposedly has higher ZDDP rating-1600?

[chadthestampede]

Good read on oil:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=215720

[FLG]

Guys we covered this in detail over on the charger forums

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,46015.0.html

Some guys even had testing done.

The conclusion is any hi-po oil (amsoil, joe Gibbs..etc) have adequate amounts of zinc.

Rotella no longer has a lot of zinc in there new (well a bit old now) formula.

If youn want to use an off the shelf oil you could buy zinc additive from any speed shop or your local GM dealership.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[nando]

Yes, degradation products from ZDDP bind palladium metal in the cat and eventually kill off the cat converter; thus the name "poison".

well, according to the EPA - it's up for debate whether that's actually the cause. it's not set in stone that ZDDP damages cats. Look how long E30 cats last, and they used ZDDP for decades.

[priapism]

You only have to wipe one cam to get jumpy about this-

it makes a MESS out of what used to be a nice $6000 race motor...

and yes, it comes up a lot.

t

How so?

[dnguyen1963]

huh? where did you pull this nonsense from?

the reason they don't have as much is because the EPA limits its use to protect emissions equipment. ZDDP is still the most effective anti-wear additive. Don't expect a 2012 engine to last for 200,000 miles with no wear, though..

Yes, degradation products from ZDDP bind palladium metal in the cat and eventually kill off the cat converter; thus the name "poison".

[nando]

isnt the standard stp additiver zddp?

that can be real cheap

i mean it feels half retarded to use full synthetic and the 1.50 oil additive. but i think thats what the data says.

believe it or not zddp means cheap the reason good oil doesnt have it is they use better stuff.

huh? where did you pull this nonsense from?

the reason they don't have as much is because the EPA limits its use to protect emissions equipment. ZDDP is still the most effective anti-wear additive. Don't expect a 2012 engine to last for 200,000 miles with no wear, though..

[ForcedFirebird]

not.

zddp is used to reduce the effects of sliding friction, specifically anymore just for cams.
And most modern engines have roller rockers, so they don't need much of it.
M20s have sliders. And do, under certain conditions.

The reason that levels keep going down is that it shortens the life of a catalytic converter.

t

Yup, it was eliminated for emissions, just like the tolerances on newer motors are tighter, requiring thinner oils. A lot of mfgr's use oil as thin as 0w-20.

[TobyB]

believe it or not zddp means cheap the reason good oil doesnt have it is they use better stuff.

not.

zddp is used to reduce the effects of sliding friction, specifically anymore just for cams.
And most modern engines have roller rockers, so they don't need much of it.
M20s have sliders. And do, under certain conditions.

The reason that levels keep going down is that it shortens the life of a catalytic converter.

t

[stamar]

isnt the standard stp additiver zddp?

that can be real cheap

i mean it feels half retarded to use full synthetic and the 1.50 oil additive. but i think thats what the data says.

believe it or not zddp means cheap the reason good oil doesnt have it is they use better stuff.

[TobyB]

You only have to wipe one cam to get jumpy about this-

it makes a MESS out of what used to be a nice $6000 race motor...

and yes, it comes up a lot.

t