Everyone's Favorite Subject (Oil)

[indecline]

What you talking bout? 0W is thinner than coors light.

I did not know Mobil 1 is a "semi synthetic"

I believe there is no correct universal answer as we live in different climate. The point of the this thread is be informative, and not so much debate.

It's not a "thin" oil. The 40wt. provides plenty of protection. The 0W rating is applicable to me for the cold weather starts.

[digger]

apparently you are better of looking at Phosphorus content than zinc if there is no actual ZDDP specs for the oil. reason being zinc is used in other ways besides ZDDP but with phosphorus its pretty much only used for forming the compound ZDDP.

[LowR3V'in]

Is 20w60 the thickest they make?
I'm thinking that's just for aircooled motors yes?

[95BMWIC]

Internal engine parts - thickening is the problem - not thinning (for normal engines) - Oils are chosen by the manufacturer to give the right thickness at the normal operating temperature of the engine around that 212°F mark..

"More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup."

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

I personally run 15W-50 - Mobil one synthetic - It has higher ZDDP values and it is what the manual suggest - I have a 1991 325i.

I also recently installed a oil pad tank heater - to keep the oil thin at startup - when temps are below 0.. (Like they were in Iowa this week)

I am also considering going to 0W40 as Mobil is now stating that it meets the requirements.

Synthetic is a lot easier (thinner) on your engine than dinosaur oils.. I would suggest reading BobistheoilGuy forum.. Very good info and it is seen on many sites from VWVortex to Porsche fourms.. (Even on the Bridgestone motorcycle site that I am a member of)..

[95BMWIC]

Add this:


ZDDP references

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2343717/1

Looking for Mobil 1 page - it moved.. will update when I find it..

0w-40

BMW approved

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1

and here:

http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bmw-ll-01_ll-01-fe-recommended-synthetic-oils.pdf

[95BMWIC]

Synthetic vs non-synthetic.. (From bobistheoilguy.com )

A main advantage that the synthetic has over the mineral based oil is the ability to lubricate at startup. Both types of oil have the same specifications at 104°F, 212°F and 302°F. It is the startup viscosity characteristics that separate these oils. Synthetic oils do not thicken as much on cooling. They have better fluidity as the temperature drops.

A synthetic oil that is labeled as 10W-30 is less honey like as a mineral based 10W-30 motor oil at startup. They both have a thickness of 10 at normal operating temperatures. At 75°F the synthetic is not as thick. At 32°F the difference between the two is even greater. At 0°F the mineral oil is useless yet the synthetic works fairly well. Just keep the RPM to a minimum.

At temperatures below zero you will not be able to start your car with mineral oils while the synthetic oils may be used to -40° or -50°F. Oils are so thick that the normal method of viscosity measurement is not possible. Instead we measure if the oil can even be pumped or poured. Again, we are only discussing a single category of oil, the multi-grade 10W-30 API / SAE grade.

According to many (especially Bob is the Oil Guy which I picked out a few quotes below) there is no such thing as a synthetic oil being too thin at startup and at normal operating temps (212 F).

Both mineral oil and synthetic can be thin hot at racing temps (302 F) - no matter what the designation on the bottle.

He notes : The greatest confusion is because of the way motor oils are labeled. It is an old system and is confusing to many people. I know the person is confused when they say that a 0W-30 oil is too thin for their engine because the old manual says to use 10W-30. This is wrong. Oils are divided into grades (not weights) such as a 20, 30 or 40 grade oils. This represents the viscosity range at operating temperature. Oils are chosen by the manufacturer to give the right thickness at the normal operating temperature of the engine. (around 212 F). The automotive designers usually call for their engines to run at 212°F oil and water temperature with an oil thickness of 10. This is the viscosity of the oil, not the weight or grade as labeled on the oil can. I want to stay away from those numbers as they are confusing. We are talking about oil thickness, not oil can labeling.

Further reading on this: (Weight vs Grades - Winter vs Summer)

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

Point 2 for synthetic:

It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup. Synthetic oil will be thinner during startup. (and by no means not too thin - there is no such motor oil that is too thin at startup) Mineral oil is much thicker at startup. With a thinner oil at startup the benefits are less engine wear. The synthetic lubricated engine will turn over easier. This has the effect of using less power from your starter motor. (Hence it will last longer). Your battery has less of a current draw. This will also last longer. The battery was discharged less during the start so the alternator will rob less power from your engine to recharge. The alternator lasts longer and you get a little better gas economy - (minute yes but an improvement nevertheless). As it turns out synthetic oils do cling to parts better as they have higher film strength than mineral oils. Synthetics are thinner overall. They have greater slipperiness. Yet they stick better to engine parts.

Point 3 for synthetic:

When the additives wear out in a synthetic oil it still has the same viscosity. It will not thin as a mineral oil. These oils will always have the correct thickness when hot and will still be too thick at startup as with all oils of all types, regardless of the API / SAE viscosity rating.

Oil Changes (which everyone on this forum seems to agree)..

My (Bob is the Oil Guy) feeling is that you can probably go 5,000 miles on the average (in a sports car) but you must change your oil in the spring time at a minimum, particularly up north. Oils form waxes in icy cold weather. There is a permanent thickening of the oil. Some automotive manufacturers are backing down on oil change intervals to 5,000 miles or less and some advocate changing the oil at least every 6 months as well. I think this is because of the tendency for oils to thicken in very hot engines (not ambient conditions, just hot engines). Also because of thickening from the cold of winter and from sludge build up that cannot be filtered out.



Side note - I have always run Mobil 1 synthetic because at first I just knew conventional wisdom was that it would last longer and protect with a hot engine (which apparently is not quite true).. .

I kept going with synthetics as I noticed I could only find full and blended oils that would cover such a high range in different temp viscosities (15W - 50). My BMW e30 manual suggests this for large temp changes like we have here in IOWA.. I also knew that synthetics had better viscosities in the winter - I could tell by adding oil in the real cold winter. I had an RX7 that ate oil and regular (mineral) oil took a while to add and synthetic was faster oil out of the bottle..

I have always known that startup wear is the worst - but I never really put it together till researching oil - that synthetics can lessen that wear and tear by being thin..

[Joseph~]

Fwiw.....

[SNIP}....If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup."....{SNIP]

The most common method used to "reducing engine wear at startup." is pre lubrication / pre oilier system.


Photo taken from VARNA'S web site

A few companies who sell systems or components

http://www.autoenginelube.com

http://www.accusump.com

http://www.varnaproducts.com/Pages/Products.php

Cost from several hundred to over a thousand.

Joseph