M20 EBay ITB's + Turbo DD project

[BlancoEDurty]

Hey all,

I sent a similar email to KAMOTORS but just in case they can't contact me anytime soon...

Im pretty much trying to do a M20 setup I haven't seen before. Since there isn't much information on a setup like this, I wanted to see if I could get some of you guy's opinons.

I've had my E30 for about 9 months now, and I have the itch for more N/A power. I've done all of the basic mods myself and am tapped out as far as engine work is concerned. I've done exhaust, performance chip paired with Stang injectors, engine parts replacement/rebuild, tune up, etc.

So, I'm preparing to buy the ITB's by the end of the month. Once I get that all installed and get some tuning experience, I'm going to go boosted + methanol injection.

I'm still riding on OEM brakes with SS line, race pads, slotted rotors upgrades. Do I need to go 4 piston? 5 Lug? So I can properly stop the extra power?

What kind of ECU tune is available that's cheaper than Megasquirt?

Do you have any information on M20 ITB setups? Would it pair well with a turbo?

I want to start at low boost, so 8-12 and upgrade the turbo unit/wastegate later. What would be the most effective and cost efficient?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[BlancoEDurty]

Bumpty bump.

[whitebulat22]

Big consideration is how much power you're looking for. Turbo M20s without ITBs and stock internals often put down 300-350 WHP which is already about as much as you'd wanna try to put down even with fat rear tires on our cars. After that point I think it would be more enjoyable to have less power if anything.

If you just want more NA power, Racehead ITBs have been giving their owners fantastic results. Look around the build threads and you'll see the evidence.

Both at the same time would get many thumbs up but I can't recommend being the one to fund it unless you have the will to do it.

Most cost effective way is always having the desired power goal defined from the start. Whatever your goal is, a turbo build can get you there, and there have been enough successful ones that we can probably find you a replica match for your idea in a completed build. Unless you're set on Turbo + ITBs, this car is proof that you'll get your dose of insanity without that combo.

[TobyB]

We race on stock brakes, and they hold up ok.

Get that motor goin' and then do the brakes afterwards if they turn out to need help.

They're easy, compared to the engine...

t

[Northern]

I'm still riding on OEM brakes with SS line, race pads, slotted rotors upgrades. Do I need to go 4 piston? 5 Lug? So I can properly stop the extra power?

if you're running track pads, stopping shouldn't be a big issue, but pad/rotor life will likely be.
Loads of options for bigger brakes, 4 lug or 5.

What kind of ECU tune is available that's cheaper than Megasquirt?

Nothing that's going to be worth it. MS is as cheap as it gets unless you want to try to run the stock DME with a chip and accept all the additional risks there.

Do you have any information on M20 ITB setups?

The RHD ITB's seem to be the bee's knees right now. Way cheaper than other options, but they also seem to be much less of a compromise and better sized than other more expensive kits

Would it pair well with a turbo?

Anything is possible, but ITBs add an extra level of complexity to set up and sort out.

I want to start at low boost, so 8-12 and upgrade the turbo unit/wastegate later. What would be the most effective and cost efficient?

I assume you're asking "what turbo" to start?
I'd take it slow and look at other build threads that are similar to what you want and mimic something that resembles what you want.

[ForcedFirebird]

Nothing that's going to be worth it. MS is as cheap as it gets unless you want to try to run the stock DME with a chip and accept all the additional risks there.

Unless you have a plenum and use an AFM, there's no way Motronic 1.3 is going to run ITB's. I know because I tried and have a far better understanding of the stock ECU's than most. Tried it on two cars, failed both times, and both cars ended up with Whodwho's PNP's. One was an Extrudabody kit, the second attempt was with the RHD kit.

On a side note, if you are fairly nifty in wiring and DIY, if you can swap in an e36 ECU (413 etc) and get it to run on your m20, then it is a much easier task. My e36 has ITB's and runs like stock - well - until you stab the gas pedal. Man that noise is orgasmic :)

[BlancoEDurty]

Big consideration is how much power you're looking for. Turbo M20s without ITBs and stock internals often put down 300-350 WHP which is already about as much as you'd wanna try to put down even with fat rear tires on our cars. After that point I think it would be more enjoyable to have less power if anything.

If you just want more NA power, Racehead ITBs have been giving their owners fantastic results. Look around the build threads and you'll see the evidence.

Both at the same time would get many thumbs up but I can't recommend being the one to fund it unless you have the will to do it.

Most cost effective way is always having the desired power goal defined from the start. Whatever your goal is, a turbo build can get you there, and there have been enough successful ones that we can probably find you a replica match for your idea in a completed build. Unless you're set on Turbo + ITBs, this car is proof that you'll get your dose of insanity without that combo.

Im aimming for 350 at the wheels. Im running 16x9 squared fitment but will go with a staggered setup of 15x9.5/15x10.5 later this year. I'm obsessed with ITB's and will most certainly have the will power to install/tune it and I have the funds.

I've seen the Raceheads and they seem like a great pickup but there arent too many people running them with more experience tips or reviews.
I'm pretty much set on ITB's but I have the feeling I will want an even more setup by the end of summer lol.

We race on stock brakes, and they hold up ok.

Get that motor goin' and then do the brakes afterwards if they turn out to need help.

They're easy, compared to the engine...

t

When you say stock brakes, you mean everything OEM? Rubber brake lines, facrtory rotors, calipers and pads?

Im running SS lines, and CAtuned Stoptech brake kit. Although I didnt feel much of a difference after installation. Also, my ABS light stays on...maybe that has something to do with it?

My engine is totally healthy and ready for this crazy setup I have in mind.

[BlancoEDurty]

if you're running track pads, stopping shouldn't be a big issue, but pad/rotor life will likely be.
Loads of options for bigger brakes, 4 lug or 5.


Nothing that's going to be worth it. MS is as cheap as it gets unless you want to try to run the stock DME with a chip and accept all the additional risks there.


The RHD ITB's seem to be the bee's knees right now. Way cheaper than other options, but they also seem to be much less of a compromise and better sized than other more expensive kits


Anything is possible, but ITBs add an extra level of complexity to set up and sort out.



I assume you're asking "what turbo" to start?
I'd take it slow and look at other build threads that are similar to what you want and mimic something that resembles what you want.

Unless you have a plenum and use an AFM, there's no way Motronic 1.3 is going to run ITB's. I know because I tried and have a far better understanding of the stock ECU's than most. Tried it on two cars, failed both times, and both cars ended up with Whodwho's PNP's. One was an Extrudabody kit, the second attempt was with the RHD kit.

On a side note, if you are fairly nifty in wiring and DIY, if you can swap in an e36 ECU (413 etc) and get it to run on your m20, then it is a much easier task. My e36 has ITB's and runs like stock - well - until you stab the gas pedal. Man that noise is orgasmic :)

Bummer. So it seems I'm goint to have to dish out the money for a standalone unit.
Would the M20 run 'okay' with the ITB setup installed before I can grab a unit? Or will I have to install everything at once?
So you fitted the e36 ECU and ITB's to your M20?

[digger]

i would use the RHD manifold and use a fabricated plenum with single throttle body. doubt the added complexity of ITB on a FI setup would be worth it

[ForcedFirebird]

Bummer. So it seems I'm goint to have to dish out the money for a standalone unit.
Would the M20 run 'okay' with the ITB setup installed before I can grab a unit? Or will I have to install everything at once?
So you fitted the e36 ECU and ITB's to your M20?

It will "run" but it's a very involved process and it will never run proper. Maybe for a race only engine, but don't expect anything to work besides WOT. It won't idle or daily drive, or you can get it to idle and falls on it's face when WOT. We spent several days trying to get the stock ECU to run them and we have years of experience hacking Motronic. You would need an emulator at the least ($175) to get even that far, just drop the few more hundred and get the P&P.


No, I have ITB's on my m50 in my e36. People have used the m50 ECU on m20's in the past and was implying if you swap in the e36 system, it is much easier to hack the ECU to run them, but you will still need an emulator and a good background in tuning. Again it took me a few days of messing with the ECU to get the to run right, then went to the dyno and spent more time tuning.

[digger]

best way is do it all at once to minimise the tuning time

[BlancoEDurty]

It will "run" but it's a very involved process and it will never run proper. Maybe for a race only engine, but don't expect anything to work besides WOT. It won't idle or daily drive, or you can get it to idle and falls on it's face when WOT. We spent several days trying to get the stock ECU to run them and we have years of experience hacking Motronic. You would need an emulator at the least ($175) to get even that far, just drop the few more hundred and get the P&P.


No, I have ITB's on my m50 in my e36. People have used the m50 ECU on m20's in the past and was implying if you swap in the e36 system, it is much easier to hack the ECU to run them, but you will still need an emulator and a good background in tuning. Again it took me a few days of messing with the ECU to get the to run right, then went to the dyno and spent more time tuning.

best way is do it all at once to minimise the tuning time

Thank you both. I will be sourcing a standalone and doing more research on the P&P unit. What else are you running with your ITB setup? Injectors? Cam? Adjustable Cam Gear? Which exhaust are you running?