High Rev M20B25

[E30-325iS]

What's a "-ECS Performance Water pump kit" ?
Do you have a link to the actual kit?

[ForcedFirebird]

What's a "-ECS Performance Water pump kit" ?
Do you have a link to the actual kit?

Most vendors will package a kit together or a specific job. Forget the "performance" title ;)

[ForcedFirebird]

To add, check out this thread...

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=261381

[mrsleeve]

this thread makes my head hurt.....

You dont need fancy Titanium rods to spin up to 8k, FFS the GM 3.6 global spins to 6800 factory and has the shitty "powdered metal rods" A old early 90's GM Lq1 will spin over 7k all day long if with nothing but the limiter turned up..... A m20 will spin faster but runs out of cam, and will float valves above 7k and make nothing but noise above stock.

You need to put your efforts/most cash into the top end more so than the bottom end, though a good balance and WAY better fasteners in the bottom end would be advisable. And yes stock M20 rods might not be the best idea down there there but for 7500 is not likely to cause too much issue with a good set of Raceware or ARPs holding things together. Though like noted S5X rods will be a good budget upgrade.

[ForcedFirebird]

Honestly, I have put the stock rods and bolts through the ringer. The rods are super stout, but heavy. Had a car come in with a hydro locked motor. Opened it up and the owner must have drove it into a lake because the two middle rods were bent nearly in half and only showed a tiny crack on each one.

If the donor core is still matching OEM parts, the rods will be within +/-2g of each other (I bring them to .+/-.1g). Likewise the cranks are very well balanced. The pistons usually have about a +/-5g spread, I also put them to +/-.1g.

...and Sleeve, the LQ1 has the same exact bottom end as all the other early 60°v6's, but they are also true forged like the m20. GM didn't start using the powder rods until 2004 when the LX9 came out. ;)

[jebc125]

You don't need to keep the stroke small to make power and rev high. Rama is making something like 275whp at 8000 RPM with an 84mm crank, so please don't dismiss my input.

This car is revving to 7500 and makes 217whp/202wtq, 2.8l with 84.5mm pistons, one of my WOT-Tech cylinder heads (ported and flowed on my bench) and only a small 272 camshaft...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7UI2UyR91Q

Here is the build...

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=330450

Pics got hosed from photobucket, but you can install a correction in your browser to see them.

Man thanks for all your input in the post! Owe you a beer

[jebc125]

What's a "-ECS Performance Water pump kit" ?
Do you have a link to the actual kit?

This is the kit https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...el-2/m20_11~3/

The performance word is almost a marketing phrase

[nando]

ECS "tuning" has to be one of the most over rated online BMW parts vendors ever. Ugh.

Oh but it comes with a "racing" timing belt! An answer to a question nobody asked! :p

[e30davie]

I don't think you read the link correctly. Its the "Performance Ultimate Timing belt kit"

It's the ultimate? what more do you want? its 300% stronger than an conventional belts. 300%! If you don't buy this kit you are literally murdering your engine.

[E30-325iS]

ECS "tuning" has to be one of the most over rated online BMW parts vendors ever. Ugh.

Oh but it comes with a "racing" timing belt! An answer to a question nobody asked! :p

Actually IveGotIssues666 asked the question.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...es+timing+belt

:D

[TobyB]

...and yet, we just use the Conti belt on the race cars.
Rockers, Mafs, brake carrier bolts, wiring harnesses, rear diff carrier brackets,
windshields and fenders, yes.

Timing belts, no problems.

t

[nando]

people who think that horsepower or boost have some direct affect on the timing belt have no idea how the forces in the head work..

Yes, I too had read that thread ages ago - the only valid argument for it was RHD as he had valve springs with much higher rates than stock.

[mrsleeve]

yes this is a sidebar

Firebird: yes I know the Lq1 is largely gen 1 60* on the bottom, but isnt still a cast crank?? The 1st GM 60* I can think of with a forged unit was the 3.5 in the the SS Malibu wagons Circa 2004ish. That and to get a forged crank in a M20 you have to source a M21 diesel crank. At one point long long ago I had both a M20 and a M21 crank on my work bench and there is a big difference in sound when gently tapped on.

[ForcedFirebird]

yes this is a sidebar

Firebird: yes I know the Lq1 is largely gen 1 60* on the bottom, but isnt still a cast crank?? The 1st GM 60* I can think of with a forged unit was the 3.5 with the blower in the the SS Malibu wagons Circa 2004ish. That and to get a forged crank in a M20 you have to source a M21 diesel crank. At one point long long ago I had both a M20 and a M21 crank on my work bench and there is a big difference in sound when gently tapped on.

Gen 1-3 is nodular iron cranks. Early lx9 has cast, rest were billet forgings with CNC cheeks (telltale sign). Problem with lx9 cranks going in earlier model blocks is the 2.25" rod pins (up from 2.1"). BMW did the very same thing in the s54 ;) (well, except they left the .001" bearing clearance....GM increased it o.0)

Either way, the iron cranks in the BMW's have shown me 500wtq is plenty capable. Never even bothered looking for a TD crank, since the cranks aren't what fails. Keeping these long heads from lifting and straight is the bigger issue. v6 have short heads and 2 additional head studs for a same amount of bores.

[LowR3V'in]

i have nothing to add except i miss the m20 for the higher reving vs the m30. :(
Even a big cam doesn't help the m30.